There have been a number of posts to the (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links) commenting on what individuals would take/have with them in the case of an emergency/ditching during a trip.  After doing a bit on internet searching about ditch kits, I've run into a number of YouTube videos on the topic of what would be placed in a personal ditch kit.  The focus of many of these videos is what you would take that could be placed inside an altoids-sized containers.  The idea of limiting the size to the altoid tin is two-fold:  (a) having a container that is small enough to easily fit into a pocket so that you will always have it with you and (b) to have a "self contained" unit sufficiently light and durable to sustain some level of use/abuse.

Some of the "kits" are relatively inventive in both design and contents.  Some of these kits have material wrapped around the outside (e.g., garbage bags, flat-folded duct tape, rubber bands, and paracord).  Some of the tins have been polished to a high shine to serve as a signal mirror.  Some use electrical tape around the outside to make the unit "waterproof."

Of course, many of the contents would be anticipated, but some gave me reason to pause and ask "why would I want that?"  So, here are a few of the things that I think most of these kits should/would include:

1) button-sized compass
2) cutting implement-straight blade (small Swiss Army knife, razor blade, exacto knife tips ...smaller blades seem to be mostly taped inside the top of the altoid lid
3) cutting implement-saw (ring saw, skilsaw blade, hacksaw blade, etc)  Some of the saw blades were cut down to fit inside the tin.  Some had the "hand end" covered with a bit of tape.  One unit had a small bolt and a hole in the altoid tin so the saw blade to be attached and the tin used as a handle.
4) fire making tools (matches and striker strip, small lighter, fire steel w/o handle, magnesium strip, cotton balls, etc.)
5) medical supplies (band aids, topical ointment, alcohol prep pad, insect-sting pad, pain killer tabs, etc)
6) containers (small plastic bags, condom, surgical glove, aluminum foil)
7) food & water related (bullion cube, snare wire, fishing implements, water treatment tabs, etc.)
8) signaling (pencil, paper, codes list/Morse code table, mirror, whistle, etc.)
9) repair (needle/thread, string/twine, straight pins, safety pins, spare button, etc.)

Of course, there were other things included (e.g., reasonably large nail), but these were among the most frequent things that appeared.  A couple even had a small flashlight included.  I really liked the minimalist approach to a flash light--led with 1" leads and a button battery--tried it, it works!

OK, now that you've seen the list, what would you include?  What's missing?  Remember, it all has to fit INSIDE an altoid-sized container!

dd

Old Salt wrote on Nov 17^th, 2010 at 5:29pm:

While I agree with the logic here (not placing one's self in harms way), I also paddle solo, which makes this consideration one of prudence.

dd

Pelican makes some Altoid sized boxes...a bit beefer that than a ziplock incased tin.  How about a fire piston in the pocket? A Spot where applicable. Dont forget it on the portages. Just saying....

Only one condom??? Seriously? In the BWQ? Is that an extremely optimistic or pessimistic attitude in winter,spring, summer or fall? Solo or tandem? Group trip? Reality bites and it's good to be prepared..

I once dumped on a simple fish guts run on big group pre-season trip. By time I made it back to camp I was dry and no longer shivering uncontrollably. The group leader thought I was kidding. Second in command noticed my lips were blue. We fished the pot out of 8' of water the next day. If I could do it over again I'd swallow my pride and scream for help immediately because at the time, over a dozen people were within easy earshot.

Mad_Mat wrote on Nov 18^th, 2010 at 1:57pm:

Well, I DIDN"T say that what I've seen others place into a ditch kit was a good idea.  I've tried a couple of ring saws, and while they didn't come apart, I felt that I'd have a better chance playing beaver and trying to chew a branch apart.  The saw blade is only marginally better, but in one of Les Stroud's shows, he used the saw blade on his multi-tool to cut down a few thumb-sized saplings to make the frame for his shelter (but sometimes I felt his show was "move 10 feet and make a shelter").

In reality, I just picked up a (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links).  The question remains as to whether I'd wear this around my neck, get a belt clip or just put in in one the pockets of my PFD.  The write-up indicates the item to weigh 2.5 oz., but that's only for the knife ... with sheath, its more like 4 oz.  Since it just arrived in the mail yesterday, I haven't had a chance to give it any exercise, but it appears substantial enough to do some serious work.  I'm hoping to make this more of a utility knife that gets used on some degree of regularity and leave behind some of my "less capable" knives.  (I did find it online for under $30 ... just barely.)  

AND, joy of joys, at least the knife part is made in the USA!

dd

Neck or hip that is a good question DD, another one of those personal preference arenas. So can ya make a thwart &/or a yoke with the k-bar.

Good choice on the Becker Necker dd
I have a few different neck knifes, that model is next on my list.
What I like is the skeletal frame. You could lash to limb make serviceable spear if the situation warranted.

I wear them around my neck as it's easier to access than stuck in pocket/clipped to belt with PFD or pack on.

My nylon camp shirts have deep bellow pockets, so sometimes I'll rest the blade and sheath in a pocket, if If I'm cooking or doing something that a flopping neck knife would prove annoying.

Here's another model that is worth looking at  Made in China, not Taiwan like your Becker Necker. Hard to find reasonably priced working knifes that are not made overseas

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mastertangler wrote on Nov 18^th, 2010 at 11:13pm:

My motto is:  If the boat is moving (or likely to be), I'm in my PFD.

Since I took a couple of not-so-serious spills this season (moving water between lakes), I sometimes travel solo, paddle just after ice-out, and I'm planning on making a few more trips to Woodlands Caribou PP (or maybe Wabakimi), my thoughts are kind of similar to a line from the movie Contact.  When Jodie Foster asked why she was being issued a "suicide pill," the response was along the lines of "There are a thousand things that we can think of that might go wrong, but its mostly for the things that we CAN;T think of."

I can invision, traveling solo, and pulling up on shore to take care of a nature call and not properly securing my canoe.  A gust of wind grabs it and its gone.  No canoe and no gear!  If this scenario (or something similar) plays out in the wrong place at the wrong time, I could be there a while with only what I have on me.  So even a well thought-out ditch-bag secured to my canoe is not going to be of much use.

Just a few more cents worth of opinion.

dd

DentonDoc wrote on Nov 18^th, 2010 at 11:40pm:


Here is an incident that illustrates dd's concern. Even when you think you have your bases covered things can happen.

I was getting ready for a 3 day offshore fishing trip and as per my usual custom I went about the day before laying in a pile of live bait. These baits are panfish sized and on this particular trip I thought if I could get a bit further from shore I could get some larger specimens. My boat at that time was a 14ft coleman canoe....plastic with a metal tubular frame.

After doing the catching I pulled into the shore to unload the heavy buckets. The wind was blowing into the shoreline so I figured my boat wasn't going anywhere during the brief scramble up the bank to the truck. WRONG! I looked back to see my boat some distance from shore and the calculations went through my head. Being only an average swimmer I let out quite a bellow as I hit the water determined to retrieve my boat and gear. When I did catch it I was glad it wasn't any further than it was. Looking back I suspect it was the tide that had carried the boat away after the weight of the buckets were removed (which had pinned it to the sandy bottom).

I'm with DB on the painters. At the end of a portage my boat always (well, mostly ) gets tied off.

DB,
OK, I'll bite............what's an FA kit?

"OK, I'll bite............what's an FA kit?"

that'd be First AId Kit

like a ditch kit, its value is proportional to how long you'd need to survive with it - a couple of days in Quetico in summer is a different scenario with different requirements than two weeks in a remote location.

I have several versions of a first aid kit, depending on what I'm expecting from it and the number of people it may need to serve - for a weekend trip, I don't need Immodium, or 40 aspirin, so my weekend FA kit is gonna be smaller, than say the kit in my climbing pack which may be called upon for more serious duty.

my real "survival kit" is always in my pockets, as I'm never without a pocket knife and matches and compass in the woods - that's essentially all I'd need to survive, and unless there were special circumstances like an extended trip where you might not see another person for 2 weeks or more, or a desert trip with water issues, or XC ski trips where winter is an issue, I don't normally take anything else.  But in my ditch kit (small fanny pack that attaches to my PFD) I carry a bottle of bug dope, and a crushable hat/bug net combo - I can't think of anything more miserable than trying to survive a hungry horde of mosquitos while your getting yourself out of trouble.  That won't fit into an altoids tin - though I think there is or was some foil wrapped towelettes of bug dope avaiable that might fit in the tin.

I can't see a need for a ditch kit unless you are solo, though two guys in one canoe is nearly the same if you go over or whatever - more than one boat in a party and help shouldn't be all that far away.  But I don't trust to a ditch kit tied to the boat - aside form a boat getting blown away from shore, it would be really easy to lose your boat out on a windy lake - if you somehow fall out (landing a fish? or other carelessness) the wind is gonna blow that canoe away from you a whole lot faster than you can swim, and if its cold water and the near shore is the upwind shore, your gonna have to abandon the boat - so when I take my ditch kit, it stays with me.

I was googling for altoids tin dimensions, to see if my little knife and sharpener idea would fit - they would - and came across an example of a kit put together on Field and Stream -  more silliness, this kit had a mini fishing kit, including several swivels - yeah, what are you gonna use a swivel for when all you've got is 30' of handline and a baited hook ?   this kit also contained some Potable Aqua tablets (good) and a like quantity of neutalizer tablets - so in a survival situaltion, your gonna worry that your water tases like iodine ?  don't think so.

The point I was making about the saw blades/wire saw, and the same for swivels and neutralizer tablets, is that there are much more important things that you could pack instead - certainly a second source of fire (more matches, small lighet, whatever) would have more value than swivels and neutralizer tablets!   

The Field and Stream kit had one good idea for water container - rather than a condom, it was to pack one of hte turkey cooking bags - they are very compact and seem quite strong (I just depend on multiple ziplocks that keep my stuff waterproof, but I may pack one of those bags also)

Probably, if I did put an altoid tin kit together, I'd include several twist ties - you can use them for lots of things, including replacing buttons, wiring your eyegalsses together if you lose a screw, etc.  Snare wire might work for those things too, assuming it was soft enough wire so that you could bend it to break it - your not likely to have wire cutters with you.

Whatever I have won I hope I can give it away.

DentonDoc wrote on Nov 21^st, 2010 at 8:30pm:



I've got one of those filter straws in my gear, though I've never used it. If I remember correctly, it was around $10 at cabelas - pretty similar to the one in the link you posted.

mastertangler wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2010 at 10:51pm:

Ever test-fired a canister?  (I have.) Might give that a try and then tell us what you think about holding a match in front of it.

dd

Damn it my sides are hurting now!   I just need to leave this one alone!

Hook one on each hip, light 'em both. Most exciting double portage ever...

The contents of a ditch kit will change depending on where you are and what you wear on your clothes.  I will assume the following: this is for canoe country and the person will be wearing some kind of utility knife.

1) Compass: minimally important, you are probably not going anywhere and a map would be more useful than a compass.  (And if you wear one as many do, then totally no need to put in kit).
2) Blade: not needed, wearing utility knife.
3) Saw: Many utility knives can serve as a saw
4) Fire makers: YES
5) Medical: YES
6) Containers: No.
7) Food/water: no (water all around).
8) Signal: whistle and mirror (if whistle not worn)
9) needle/thread: needle, safety pin, and some kind of thread/string/line that is very small yet strong.
10)Small bit of duck tape
11) Space blanket

Basically, stuff to stay warm, deal with medical problems, and signal for help.

mastertangler wrote on Nov 24^th, 2010 at 3:55am:

Who said anything about the flame climbing back?  

I've ignited hairspray.  I even remember when Right Guard deodorant came in a spray can (yea, I'm OLD).  I remember the Right Guard especially, since it wasn't uncommon in my college dorm to have a 2-3 foot flame shoot through the door vent from someone standing outside and igniting their Right Guard spray.

BUT, neither of these were BEAR SPRAY!

dd

It's my impression that the concept of the ditch kit is that you're not going to get sepparated from it.  No matter how wet & cold you are, you still have the ditch kit.  This is something that's on your person at all times.

In a survival situation what's normally outrageous is often perfectly acceptable.  I might normally say that a fire you need to stand away from is too big and just a waste, it's the order of the day when hypothermia/survival is a reasonable concern.

Aye Aye Capt.
I'll take your word for it. Stuff sounds kind of rough. I always have it in my tent at night but I have to remind myself that it would likely render me incapacitated if I used it.

I would have to be in dire circumstances to employ the spray for ANY reason. Hmmmm, I wonder how a bear would react to the flamethrower method........I'M KIDDING, I'M KIDDING....sorta

MMMMM Here's a bit of a story for you all...A number of years ago; but still post the aerosol right guard era, but on another note I do remember those days-your not that old DD. Least we forget the Binoca flame, a flame of a different spice...but once again I digress, with pyrotechnic JOY .

But back to the story at hand.

At the time I was a canoe guide, what ever the heck that means (adolescent boys, low pay, chestnut barges (the other cadillac) and taco TVP ). One of the things that was a typical pre-trip gig was to run through an exercise to access swimming skills of the campers and demonstrate a canoe over canoe rescue. The first group that was blessed to have me as their "guide" came to me in early June, actually a typically cool windy June day.

The swim went peachy as I found my sinkers The canoe was swamped, after a lot of coaching to properly achieve that necessary simultaneous lean, as was the rescue technique-these boys were impressive and shy, and the later is important in the chain of events that would continue to precipitate.

They elected contrary to direction to bring their change of clothes to the bath house for the post dunking warm up. With in 5 minutes I had one camper go from a typical "well functioning" 13 year old to ...a vomited out COLD grey blue unresponsive sack of flesh. Hypothermia is real, and IMO something that will impact most if not all of the fancy notions expounded in this thread for getting warm.

I understand the bush skills are very important, but only if one can make it through the DITCH. Simply said, good boy scouts dont ditch.

If one does ditch in cold water I sure would not want to find out the "system" (complex or otherwise) that I had developed is something that I could get my cold, numb, poor functioning body and compromised mental status to do. Is it an easy walk in the park always successful thing you can do...if not  they wont be yours....

BTW the camper ended up being fine, his family, friends, and I got lucky; and he elected to do the trip to boot. After I got him warmed back up enough for him to come to, talk, and walk (some 30 minutes later) we took a stroll to the nurse's cabin his temp did not register on a thermometer (the lowest reading available on the glass was 86F) I still blame this on a "bad" thermometer It was hours before his temp was normalized, even with the hot drinks and sleeping bag covers...

So you think you can always flick your BIC    , I hope you know so!

"So you think you can always flick your BIC    , I hope you know so!"


logic path --

you carry a ditch kit, and before, or even if getting hypothermic, you are able to light a fire quickly and warm up --  good

or, you carry a ditch kit, but get too hypothermic to be able to light a fire --  bad, but you are no worse off than if you didn't have the ditch kit in the first place

you don't carry a ditch kit, have no  way to start a fire, and eventually get too hypothermic to care -- bad - you had the time, but not hte means to prevent hypothermia

will you always win ?    who cares, but it doesn't take a genius to figure out that if you can't start a fire, you need to get moving fast and run around or do jumping jacks, whether you feel like it or not, to try and get warm  --  Darwin's Rules.

marlin55388 wrote on Dec 9^th, 2010 at 5:35am:

Yep!  I've been in potential hypothermic situations twice times, one of which was hypothermia.  Early detection is key.  With the one actual hypothermia event we quickly got shelter, food, warm drink and into our sleeping bags.  Shortly after we both passed out.  Woke up a few hours later alive & well.

Somewhat disagree that a good scout never ditches.  Pushing my limits is part of how I learn where those limits are.  There are stupid ways to do it, there are smart ways to do it.  Solo I lean towards caution, often not doing things I know I *should* be fine with.  Tandem I'm willing & happy to push harder.  For me, being out there often entails pushing my boundries.  Always with an exit plan.  That exit plan might be, stay close to shore in case I ditch.

It is indeed it is about learning boundaries, the point that I am trying to make is one in regards to not beating the biochemical one, the physiology of it all and the inherit limitations in it Expecting the unexpected is a good thing, as is the thought process that comes with dialog...define the "boy scout" as you wish to do so that is about you as it should be and it will receive no acrimony or disdain from these parts; what ever floats your boat It is about audience and how I felt one of my stories related to this thread and how easy it is for some to get in their own way (inclusive); make of it what you want.

As I was crafting a small pill container last evening, a question arose.  The pill container is designed to hold a few iodine tablets for my ditch kit.

Since I always thinking "multi-use" for everything ... can iodine tablets serve as the basis of tincture of iodine?  Yes, I know I'll be missing the ethyl-alcohol, but could it serve a disinfectant purpose?  I've red that tincture of iodine can be used to purify water ... I'm assuming the "role reversal" would also be possible.

dd

No, but I stayed at a Holiday Inn, "now stand back everyone and toss me those iodine pills and that bowie knife".........

I'm rather pleased with my ditch kit. It connects via a small U.L. pack to the back strap of my PFD. My emphasis is being able to start a fire and to that end I have a butane lighter, waterproof matches in corresponding match case with striker enclosed within, and several packages of wet tinder. I also have a space blanket, a whistle and a few small lures.

The thought occurs to me however, what happens when your not in possession of your PFD? Say you've bushwacked and got turned around or gone off the portage trail and your handy ditch kit is sitting in the boat? Not going to do you much good then.

Hmmmm :question

nctry_Ben wrote on Dec 24^th, 2010 at 5:45pm:


It's actually called "wet fire tinder." Woods Walker mentioned it and I looked into it. The stuff is really pretty amazing. It comes in prepackaged little cubes about the size of a big marble. Super light and burns very hot for a surprisingly long time. I was also impressed at it's wind resistance. Ignitable with a magnesium fire stick (spark maker) if you create a little pile of powder with about a 1/4 of it.

I have put a few packs of it and a spark maker in with my camera case which I have on me always as well as several more in my more traditional "ditch kit". Likely will never need the stuff. Risk/reward equation makes it worth it IMO.

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DD

This looks really good, and it floats! I have questions...Where is the space blanket/silnylon, snare wire, and paracord? Did you ever find a good "recipe" for iodine water treatment, I know there are products on the market that use iodine in crystal form as their base?

Well thought out I wonder if you could take a piece of MSR style wind shield (heavy Al foil) and fold it into a cooking vessel; I just do not think that it would stand up to repeated folding and unfolding...just a thought. Its hard to keep the weight and volume down isn't it...What about doing a search on military based survival kits...DD kudos to you for sharing this process.

hmmmm....condoms...a great dual purpose survival piece...if you're lucky, you won't need it for water...  

I've never tried filling a condom with water, but unless it was from a running source, like a little spring etc, wouldn't it be a hassle to fill from a standing source :question

I'm wondering if a quart freezer type zip lock bag might fit in that kit.
Folded flat, it shouldn't take up much space.
Easy to fill and tougher than a condom to be sure.

I have a stainless steel emergency drinking cup, that folds flat. When opened it looks like an old school pointy bottomed paper water cup you used to see around office water coolers. I have it in somewhere in my gear room, just can't recall location exactly When I dig it out, I'll see if I can find mfg. It might fit in your kit and you could heat water, boil critter soup in it with a little effort. I've had it for years, but a Google search turned up 0, so maybe it's no longer made.

Nice effort. I think we could debate choice of contents till the cows come home, but the important thing is your being pro-active, instead of re-active.
Plan for the worst, hope for the best is a good motto for the wilderness traveler

rlageman3 wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2011 at 8:57pm:


Okay, that's simple enough, but how about transporting it filled it if your on the move?
You'd have to secure it some way so it doesn't stretch and break.
Maybe a zip-lock bag AND some condoms for more versatility.

DentonDoc wrote on Jan 30^th, 2011 at 9:33pm:


Follow-up (on the 6 X 10" lens):

Nice sunny day outside today ... mid-60's.  Thought I'd get back to playing again (and leave you guys alone for a while ... no luck there!)

I haven't tried to boil water yet with the larger lens, but that could be a little bit of a problem.  I had previously (partly cloudy day, indoors) tested the focal point of this lens.  I succeeded in melting a nice arc on a dark plastic bottle.  (Yeah, the sun does make an arc in the sky this time of year).  So to reach a sustained boil, you WILL need to re-position the lens position ever so often.

So, today I thought I'd get back to some basic fire making ... larger lens, no char cloth.  I took a small piece of t-shirt (cotton), some dry grass, a couple of leaves and a small piece of birch bark to catch the flame when it started).  Once the focal length was set correctly (about 2 1/2 feet with this larger lens), the material started to smoke almost immediately.  But I gave it a good 30 seconds before I began to add more oxygen.  Within a minute I had a flame.  

Who says science can't be fun!  

dd

BTW:  My bum wheel has just about mended, so I'll be back to walking soon and will leave you poor folks alone!  

Well, I think I'm finished with by ditch kit arrangement.  Here are some pic's of the final set of components.

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There are a few changes here from my original list of components (and picture).  I've downsized the fire steel, compass and mirror.  I've added an actual fire steel striker (right of smaller fire steel, char cloth (left of smaller file steel, small baggie showing foil wrapper), water purification tablets (near center; left of smaller mirror), single-edge razor blade (right of pill case, with smaller cap), and aluminum foil (1' X 2' sheet rolled inside small baggie; lower left).

The overall arrangement is shown in the pic below:

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Top is a small fanny pack (POE WxTex Alki--water resistant) which will hold all of the contents shown plus my leatherman tool (if I take it off my belt).  Even with these contents, there is still room inside for a few "comfort" items (bug repellent, sun screen, tube of petroleum jelly, a few med's and maybe a food bar).  I'm still thinking of placing most of these items in the pockets of PFD, but I'll have to see how that might impact my paddling stroke.

From left-to-right along the bottom are:
1) "Becker-Necker" K-bar knife w/sheath above.  The sheath also has paracord and a lace-lock slider. (I'll actually wear this around my neck if I store the other items in my PFD.)
2) Aquamira Frontier Emergency Water Filter (good for 25 gallons); atop a snack baggie for storage (actual drinking tube is nearly invisible in this shot, filter part shown more clearly).
3) Emergency Mylar sleeping bag (I also inserted a crock pot liner bag inside the zip-lock bag the sleeping bag comes in.  The crock pot bag could be used for water storage and/or heating water.
4) The ditch kit from above

dd

Where did you find the tiny condoms? (above the band-aids)
Oh, Aquamira... Sorry.

The foil is an excellent addition I've never fully considered. I'd want a better compass (and a tiny map), would dump the bobber and, oh I don't know, a paper clip or two. I'd consolidate the lures and hooks with painter's tape and lose the hard container. No bare hooks?

All in all? Looks good! I hope you never need it and that the simple process of putting it together -thinking what if- provides the most benefit. For me, it's bigger than I'd keep with me and smaller than I'd want if ever needed. We all know how that goes.

On the Mylar bag that's so nicely folded. Did you buy two and try one out. I'm curious if you spent any time in one.

What's a crock pot liner bag?

I like the sword

Preacher wrote on Apr 8^th, 2011 at 1:51pm:

You make an excellent point and one that, in part, got me started down this road.  

In the process to inspecting the pockets of my PFD where my former ditch items were stored, I discovered that my mylar sleeping bag had delaminated.  While it might have been useful for carrying water (after a rinse), it would not have served much other purpose.

So, whatever you might choose to include in a pocket, pack or PFD should you loose access to your normal gear needs to be inspected at least annually, if not as part of a pre-trip ritual.  (What's the last time you flicked that BIC?)

dd

Quote:

Another option would be a wine cork, cut down a bit.  Keeps single hooks safe & could double as a bobber, just drill out a 1/8" hole.  Use a stick to hold the line in the hole.
Smart using braided line.  That stuff lasts a few years.

mastertangler wrote on Apr 10^th, 2011 at 1:27am:

I'm thinking of using the wetfire more for getting a fire started when other methods fail.  I don't plan to use more of the cube than required to achieve that end.  I figure I can get 3-4 fires from one cube by shaving off only what is needed rather than using a complete cube.

I'd also recommend that you confirm that you can ignite a fire with a striker (if that is your plan).  Thinking you can do it and knowing that you can are two different things.  You need to have the confidence that DOING provides.  This will help to mediate your frustration when it doesn't happen exactly like you expect.  (BTW:  Getting wetfire to ignite with a fire steel IS as easy as it looks.)

That is precisely why I spent some time working on making fire with a bow drill.  It looks easy enough, but there is a little technique to it.

Bottom like: if you have room for more, by all means take more.

dd

That whole top row is fire starting stuff from the duct tape on! I get the ... just dumped ... want a fire to avoid hypothermia idea (mostly). After that, what's the big deal? Fuel, air and heat. Not that hard. The hard part would be finding a decent place to start a fire on an unforgiving shoreline. I simply assume the cotton ball container fits and would be convenient with the firesteel.

I had mentioned earlier that I liked the addition of the aluminum foil. The reason for that is starting and sustaining a fire quickly, no matter what. Starting a fire is easy. Sustaining one with wet sticks in the rain is another matter. Foil provides quick separation from cold, wet ground. It also reflects heat towards you and can also keep the cooling rain off your fire. Basically, foil could help with the heat part of the fire triangle.

Once emergent conditions have passed and you don't have a saw or hatchet, I'm sort of thinking one of those lame coil saws with the two rings for your fingers might be a nice addition. If you want a fire to last w/o feeding it every few minutes you need larger fuel.

I still hold the belief that, for me, gathering wood would warm me faster than an instant fire and when I imagine all the different sorts of places I might drift/swim to, there's not a lot of great places to build a fire to begin with. Once stranded w/o all the things that normally provide comfort, a fire would be nice to sit by in the dark at some sheltered location.

Still hoping you never need it for real DD. Maybe fold the foil to fit the box instead of rolling? Foil would be a plus IMHO.

db wrote on Apr 10^th, 2011 at 6:01am:

I debated about the cotton balls, especially the container.  It takes a lot of space.  However, the cotton balls are in the kit for 2 reasons.  One is obvious due to its placement--fire starting.  However, there is a reason the cotton balls aren't already coated with petroleum jelly.  The second use is medical.  Could be a pad for a larger cut (with duct tape to hold it in place).  A bit swirled on the end of a twig would be a reasonable substitute for a cotton swab (e.g., for removing something from my eye... another reason to have a mirror along).

As my more current series of trips have moved away from "just after ice out" launches, the need for a ditch kit is somewhat less critical.  Yet, having gone for unintentional swims last season (which were more refreshing than life threatening), it occurred to me that you don't decide when such things happen ... they just happen.  So if a little preparation gets me out of a tough spot, so much the better.

I'll have to see about the folding rather than rolling the foil.  (I was thinking more about wind screen/cooking for this, but you are right about wet ground sucking the life right out of an otherwise healthy fire.)

Now on to improving my skills at constructing deadfall and other traps.  Might even have to try my hand at making a solar still as well...I'm not ALWAYS traveling by/on a lake.  Jimbo's near dehydration experience on the Irvine portages with nothing but swamp water about got my attention (especially since I've been known to drop 5 pounds in under 2 hours...all water...when out for a summer walk, despite throwing down a whole nalgene of liquid).

dd

BTW:  I tried one of those ring saws years ago.  Total crap.  It would be quicker for me to gnaw a limb off a tree.  I did upgrade once to one that used a length of something akin to a chain saw blade ... had handles like the pull to start your manual lawn mower.  Better, but bulky and not as good as a "real" saw.

I have a ring saw liked dd, but have had a completely different experience trying it
Maybe there's a difference in brands?
I cut a small green branch with it and used my neck knife to whittle a notch on each end and made a Bow Saw out of it.
Obviously it's not comparable to a true saw, but it was serviceable.
I've had mine for years, I believe I got it it from a military surplus place. It's stainless and maybe was a part of some pilot's survival kit?
Might be foreign made as well. I've seen one that look similar but the saw part was different.
Mine was cheap, so If you run across one for a few bucks it might be worth buying and trying out? You might find one that works out for you.

db wrote on Apr 14^th, 2011 at 4:15pm:

I'd love to find one with the same kinds of properties ... light weight (I'm trying a plastic one that is lighter than the roughly equivalent Pelican case), waterproof, and rounded corners (to keep from wearing holes in my PFD or fanny pack).  The idea of having a container that could double as a small cooking "pot" has definite appeal.  

I'll have to keep my eye out for one, unless someone knows of such a box with those kinds of dimensions.  Altoid tin is just a tad too small for my kit now.  Maybe an older fishing fly box (most seem to be plastic these days)?

dd

I found these French Military Aluminum boxes here:
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A little bigger than you wanted, and not waterproof, but since your a dedicated " tinker" dd, you probably could make something out them

I wonder how much it would cost to cut one down and have it welded back together?

Old film containers...They are metal, but not waterproof.

solotripper wrote on Apr 14^th, 2011 at 10:55pm:

Good work, ST! 

dd

I looked at that site, and they do have some nice metal containers - but like wow man! they have these plastic spare battery carriers that are just totally awesone!  how stupid I've been all these years to just put a couple of spare batteries in a sandwich baggie and wrap with a rubberband.

alternatives to boiling waterin a "tin" could include making a birchbark pot, and heating some small stones in a fire and dropping into a ziplock bag of water, or into a "container" made from that piece of aluminum foil, which is what I'd be doing more or less

db wrote on Apr 15^th, 2011 at 7:44am:

If you are looking for a small tin for storing your kit and wish to use it for cooking/heating water, here is a tip.  

Just for grins last night, I decided to pull down a small tin we had left over from Christmas.  It was about the right size for my kit and had a lid.  The downside is the tin has a seam on one corner and around the bottom.  I put water in it and sure enough it had a small leak.  To see if I could seal the seam, I tried to soldier the corner seam ... being tin (rather than something like copper), the soldier did not stick to it  But in an effort to burn off the paint covering the box (with the blow torch) it badly warped the tin.  So, I would assume that even if I'd been able to seal the seam that after one field use for heating water, I would no longer have a serviceable container.

On the contrary, I did heat water in an Altoid tin (which has no corner or bottom seams).  After heating on my home stove top, it showed no signs of distortion and closed as normal.

So, if you are in the market for a storage/cooking tin, the best bet is to find one that is stamped rather than formed ... no seam is WAY better for this kind of use.

dd

DD, Might be a heat transfer thing too. I assume the seamed box was empty when you heated it and you said the Altoid one had water in it.

I've heard of boiling water in a birch bark bowl too.

DentonDoc wrote on Apr 18^th, 2011 at 3:34pm:


If that's true, it would never get hot enough to take the solder if you had it full of water though. So how to seal it up to use for boiling water remains the question.

Line it with a plastic bag? 

solotripper wrote on Apr 18^th, 2011 at 3:46pm:

If I read the spec's correctly, that vessel is a 1" X 3" tube.  Doesn't sound like much water will get boiled to me.  At that size, I'd be able to boil as much water in my fishing kit tin.  Did I miss something?

dd