25 bear proof food container (Read 19576 times)
Mountain_Paddler
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Re: bear proof food container
Reply #20 - Mar 12th, 2011 at 2:10am
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I found the following evaluation/review to be quite enlightening for me:

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Note it is a 2004 review, and I think they have modified the method of securing the top to the canister twice since then, so if you order a new one, it won't be exactly what is described in the article.
  
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mastertangler
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Re: bear proof food container
Reply #21 - Mar 12th, 2011 at 3:09am
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My vault acts as a food organizer and an additional odor barrier. I also like how it starts my packing process. It is effective against other critters as well. A bit of peace of mind but I still wouldn't let it have the effect of letting my guard down. The last thing I want is, vault or no vault, a bear getting interested in my chow. There is only bad things as a result. bad for you, and bad for the bear.

Since the vault isn't airtight it is not odor proof. A bears world is its nose. For that reason even with the vault I go odor free. I double ziplock my snickers bars.

I am not a fan of the aloksak. I got several and thought they were great until they got a little beat up and then they didn't work so well. You must have 100% confidence. I use nalgene wide mouthed canteens for food storage. Two 96 oz ones will fit inside a bear vault very nicely. These are practically indestructible and airtight and therefore odor tight. The screw on lid is foolproof and the wide mouth makes loading/unloading easy. All my oats go into these. They come in many different sizes and I find them ideal food storage containers. Tough, foolproof and odor free.
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Mountain_Paddler
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Re: bear proof food container
Reply #22 - Mar 12th, 2011 at 3:47pm
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So in the navigation bar over on the right side of this page, you have a link to a sequence of pages, "How to Hang a Food Pack."  Between two trees and all the rest. 

But then in a photo above, we see a bear hanging on the wire enjoying your kindness in putting so much food in one spot in order to make all his effort worthwhile. Huh

So my question is, if you do go to all the trouble of hanging it between trees, does it work?  Is your food safe?  In Q, is anyone aware of any time a bear or other critter got into a properly hung food stash?

And thanks, nctry_Ben, for the reminder earlier that you won't always have the right two trees.

I am concerned about bears for my trip in September; I would guess they are wanting to start the fattening up process for winter, and it sounds like some of these guys have gotten in the habit of checking us tourists out.  Several of you emphasize keeping your food away from the main part of your campsite--I would think you want also to keep it away from your canoe and your retreat opportunity.  Hmmm, can we paddle faster than a bear can swim--I mean if we're really scared?

Anyhow, back to my main question:  In the Q, is anyone aware of a bear or other critter getting into a properly hung food stash?   :question
  
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mastertangler
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Re: bear proof food container
Reply #23 - Mar 13th, 2011 at 3:11am
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MP, The lakes and campsites that have problem bears are usually the places that get concentrated visitation. Places near entry points where campers stack up are more likely to have habituated bears.

Basically you have 2 options. You can stash your food or hang it. If you hang it my advice is not to hang it where everybody else does, especially if it is a campsite with heavy use. I gave up on hanging long ago. The right trees that meet the proper criteria are to inconsistent to make me happy.

I took my cue from Cliff Jacobson who is a confirmed stasher. He hides his food out of the main campsite area. The trick with this is to be absolutely odor free. If they can't smell it they will walk right by every time.

If the thought of bears make you nervous read "Bear attacks, causes and avoidance" by Stephen Herrero. By the end you will be terrified Wink. Some pretty rough experiences. But you will certainly be educated and  understand it is all about odors. And then of course there is the habituated bear which has learned which sites to visit and which trees they have gotten grub before.........
  
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starwatcher
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Re: bear proof food container
Reply #24 - Mar 13th, 2011 at 7:49pm
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MT; I'm about to give up on hanging packs too.  After the historic wind storm that blew down a lot of trees; the last couple trips it seems harder to find a suitable tree.  On my last trip my efforts with hanging ropes pulled down a number of branches.  Lucky for us we go in October and there isn't much bear activity.  We mainly hang the packs to keep the mice out of the packs.  I'll probably use a combination in the future.

starwatcher
  
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Mountain_Paddler
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Re: bear proof food container
Reply #25 - Mar 13th, 2011 at 11:58pm
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OK, I'm convinced.  Stash it.  And use the bear vault.  And keep it odor free.  And choose campsites that are away from big places of concentration.  Further, with four of us, if we each stash our vault in a different place, maybe he won't get all of them.

My goal here is not to lose my food for at least three days.  After that, I'm on a 6-day trip, I'm already heading home, and I won't have to cut the trip short. 

Thanks, MT, for the book ref.  I'll see if our local library has it.
  
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mastertangler
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Re: bear proof food container
Reply #26 - Mar 14th, 2011 at 3:30am
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starwatcher wrote on Mar 13th, 2011 at 7:49pm:
We mainly hang the packs to keep the mice out of the packs.  


Yes Starwatcher, as many of us know it isn't just bears we have to worry about. From thieving camp foxes at Isle Royale to chipmunks and mice just about everywhere else.

3 or 4 years ago we were in Algonquin in Oct (just spectacular) and we were on Tim lake doing a little lake trout trolling. We were making a pass near our island campsite and my partner commented on all the crows that seemed near our site. Sure enough they had drug several packages of granola/blueberries and milk out of a pack I had left open and had a field day. Fortunately we had plenty of grub but I was pretty surprised at them hopping inside a pack to pull out the foil packs and then pecking them open.

A few tidbits of advice on stashing. Avoid the lakeshore. A natural travel way for any animal including bears. Try and stash low keeping in mind that cool air sinks. If you stash on a hill by midnight or so the cool sinking air is likely to carry any scent downward.

You MUST be able to find your stashed food. Don't laugh! It's easier to forget where you stashed it than you think. Get tired, wander into the woods a little ways and slip it in a little hollowed out spot under some blowdown and by morning you might be a little forgetful. I "mark" my spot with a reflective runners strip. It's bright and reflective (in case I want to find my food in the dark) and is easy to velcro it to a limb above your food. I do suggest this procedure.

Lastly, if you stash you must be very particular with odors. One slip up and you can get hit. I got careless on Sawbill our last night out 20 minutes from the truck. High use area, very habituated bears and a snickers bar tossed in my food pack without any zip-lock protection. It was something to hear that bear crashing through the brush to get to my food pack. I had a false sense of security as I had a motion detector alarm with piercing siren and flashing strobe light. I figured any critter in its right mind would split when that thing went off. I couldn't of been more wrong. It deterred the bear for about 3 seconds. Just a slight pause and then rip, rip, munch, munch Tongue.
  
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mastertangler
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Re: bear proof food container
Reply #27 - Mar 14th, 2011 at 3:52am
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One last thought MP. I don't put my freeze dried in my vault. I just put it in a black stuff sack. I have never had anything bother my freeze dried food when it was by itself and stashed on the ground outside the camp area. Totally odor free. Not mice or chipmunks or bears or birds.

It was interesting to note the night we were clipped on Sawbill I had my freeze dried in with my regular food. The bear wouldn't eat any of the freeze dried. A single tooth puncture hole in each package was all I found. All the oats, granola and candy bars however were gone. Not so much as a flake left.

So my strategy is all the oats and bars go in the vault where there is at least some protection if a bear stumbles on it. I don't worry so much about the freeze dried and keep it separate especially since the packaging is absolutely air and odor tight. Unlikely the bear will find it (no odors), further unlikely he will identify it as food and then if he decides to try it will probably not eat it (based on previous encounter).......I didn't think it was that bad Wink.

If your an oats man like me nothing works better than the nalgene canteen. The 96 oz fits  right inside the vault and it is easy to manipulate the bag to pour the food out. I know I have already suggested it but sometimes folk need to hear something more than once. Absolutely airtight/odor tight and extremely durable.
  
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Mountain_Paddler
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Re: bear proof food container
Reply #28 - Mar 14th, 2011 at 4:07am
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Thanks, MT, that is good to know.  That is GREAT to know.  Because a good % of our food, by volume, will be freeze dry.  Sounds like we pack similar food--except the Snickers.  Instead, I suck on a lot of hard candies when backpacking; I s'pose I'll do the same thing when canoeing.
  
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db
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Re: bear proof food container
Reply #29 - Mar 14th, 2011 at 6:18am
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The best way to hide smelly things like bacon & butter must be at the very edge of camp like this:
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Hey, never had a problem. Wink

I can remember only three occurrences where I've seen shredded FD bags. One was back in the woods near an old, shredded green pack. One by a campsite with BEAR spelled out in pebbles by the fireplace and one at the campsite where (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links) stopped to sniff my tackle box while being chased under my hanging pack. All were islands FWIW.

Bear proof canisters are small and expensive but if they fit your style, I see them as best for everyone's peace of mind.

Since there's four of you, I'd say two tree hanging would be the easiest. Even if you had terrible luck and camped where an habituated acrobat type bear frequented, I expect the odds would be tipped in your favor.

Cliff's hiding method presumes hiding things well out of camp. What, 50 yards? 100 yards? Who's gonna drag their food that far away from camp? Does splitting it up into halves and hiding in two different directions double the chances of failure? Cheesy

Have a plan. Consider it's weaknesses. The worst outcome would be educating a bear with two cubs to associate campsites with fast food buffets.

Oh sure, NOW i find it. Here's the best thread I can remember on the subject:
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