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 10 What do you think? (Read 5499 times)
Kerry
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What do you think?
Mar 17th, 2011 at 9:56pm
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Last summer I bought a new Bell Northstar Blackgold which is the most elegant, perfect tandem canoe I’ve ever paddled.  However, unnoticed by me until I got her on the water,  the outfitter from whom I bought her installed the kneeling thwart at the bow facing the stern instead of the stern facing the bow.  I know what you’re thinking – that’s where it’s supposed to go stupid!  In a traditionally designed canoe that would be true but the Northstar is an asymmetrical design and therefore, when soloed, must be paddled facing the bow.  The guy that set up the canoe was a real jerk, one of those guys who believes he knows everything and when I later  pointed out his error he basically said I didn’t know what I was talking about – that it wasn’t an asymmetrical design and he didn’t intend to change it.  Even when I told him to go onto Bell’s website where there is a clear picture of the Northstar with a kneeling thwart installed (facing the bow), he refused.  Anyway by that time the damage was done.  I called the owner of the place where I purchased it and he apologized profusely and said he’d make it right.  He invited me to bring the canoe back next summer before my next big trip and he’d exchange my canoe for a new one set up properly at the factory.  Very decent!  But you can probably guess the problem.  Bell has ceased production and there are no new canoes available.  So what should I do?  The owner still wants to make things right.  I could just switch the kneeling thwart and the stern thwart around but then I’d have a bunch of holes in the gunwales of the $3000 canoe that I plan to paddle for the rest of my life.  Maybe I’m just being picky (and, as things turned out, I suppose I’m lucky to have a Bell canoe at all) but I’d really like things to be set right.  The owner sincerely wants to know what I’d like him to do but at this point I’m not really sure what to say, short of having him replace the gunwales and re-install the seats and thwarts properly, which seems a bit extreme.  What do you think – do I just have to eat it?
  
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wally
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Re: What do you think?
Reply #1 - Mar 18th, 2011 at 1:47am
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You're not picky...your boat, your rules.  But since you paid for it....me thinks it's now your issue.  Fill the holes and chalk it up to experience.

As soon as you paddle a few BW trips, the gunwale marks will look great compared to the scratches on her bottom.
  
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Kerry
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Re: What do you think?
Reply #2 - Mar 18th, 2011 at 3:24am
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True that, Wally.
  
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id10t
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Re: What do you think?
Reply #3 - Mar 18th, 2011 at 4:23am
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From the business owners perspective I would want you to ask just what you did here. Expensive boat for him to up and replace which he seems wiling to do if he could. That says a lot about his character.

You asking these questions says the same for yours.

In most cases that will lead to a good outcome once the discussion happens. Maybe you need some other things he has or maybe you will get the forever discount on any future purchases.

I never forget the customer who realizes mistakes happen to all of us. None of us are perfect and we all have bad days. As do those who we hire to work for us. Reasonable folks can be tough to find in this day and age.

Like wally said a few holes in grand scheme is not so bad. You could put screws and nuts through them and the only one the wiser would be you and another Northstar Owner. You could also use the holes for dring mounts.

Your questions made my day.  Smiley
  
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marlin55388
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Re: What do you think?
Reply #4 - Mar 18th, 2011 at 4:50am
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A very good question indeed. You know already me thinks, the golden rule.
  
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db
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Re: What do you think?
Reply #5 - Mar 18th, 2011 at 5:28am
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I'd cut plugs paying attention to the grain and then fill the underside with a dowel. Ash would be easy. Maybe Bell would send you a chunk of walnut. If you could somehow make use of the holes make sure to seal the end grain very well and always give the holes extra attention when you oil 'em.

Then I'd find out exactly where I wanted it installed and do it myself.

Picky? You paid for a pristine new boat and you should have a pristine new boat but it doesn't sound like that's possible. You still have every right to be a prick about it. Question is, is it worth it? Did that kneeling thwart and installation cost extra? $50? Doubling that seems fair compensation just to get it settled and done with. Unless the bit they used was dull and/or the hole isn't clean, wanders ... then you bought a scratch 'n dent factory second.  Shocked
  
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Mad_Mat
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Re: What do you think?
Reply #6 - Mar 18th, 2011 at 12:44pm
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"I could just switch the kneeling thwart and the stern thwart around"

that depends on where that guy placed the kneeling thwart - the bow is a bit narrower, and if he cut the thwart to fit, it likely is not going to be long enough to work in the correct location  - likely, the stern thwart could be cut down to fit the bow location

it seems to me, right wrong or indifferent, you accepted the canoe the way it was - the best time to have raised the issue wtih the owner was before you picked up the boat and left the shop and came to an agreement regarding repair then - or not accepted it at all

but it is what it is, and I'd just see if the owner would have a new kneeling thwart installed at the correct location for you, and give you a few bolts or otherwise plug any unnecessary holes
  
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Snow_Dog
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Re: What do you think?
Reply #7 - Mar 18th, 2011 at 1:38pm
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Congratulations!  Your canoe now has character.  Nothing has happened to it in a way that cannot be reversed so that it will not degrade it's usefulness or lifespan.

I'd ask the owner to have the kneeling thwart properly installed and to do the best he can to hide the old holes for you.  I guess I'm with those who say you should have refused to pick up and pay for a canoe that was improperly modified but that ship has already sailed.  Now you just have to make the best of it. 

If that's not enough to satisfy you, I guess other steps you could consider taking are:

Search other dealers nationcontinent-wide for a yet-unmodified Bell and if you can find one, see if your dealer will offer a refund and take yours back.  You'd have to pay to get the canoe shipped to you (and maybe the dealer would consider facilitating that step at your expense).  IMHO, this would be taking it a bit too far, but if you are truly that upset, the dealer might consider it.  If he does, you should be singing his praises far and wide to everyone you know as a dealer who stands behind his customers above and beyond the call of duty.

See if the owner is willing to offer some sort of compensatory product or service at no additional charge, such as a new paddle or an additional complimentary modification to the canoe.  Again, if he does, I'd be very vocal about encouraging others to use this dealer.

Overall, it sounds to me like your dealer is willing to meet you somewhere in the middle and for that you should be very pleased.
  
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Preacher
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Re: What do you think?
Reply #8 - Mar 18th, 2011 at 3:35pm
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Yeah, your boat - your rules.  Especially if you bought it new and it's not assembled to your reasonable expectations.

I'd say it's up to them to re-fit it correctly & replace any trim to factory new.

$3k is too much to spend for shoddy workmanship and bs attitude.

Res ipsa loquitur trumps caveat emptor.


Another option, since a couple holes in the gunwale aren't really any major issue beyond cosmetic and can be filled/plugged.  This is what I would go for.
1 - They install a kneeling thwart at the location you indicate.
2 - They plug the holes, sand & seal.  Not a putty knife & wood filler plug, but an actual plug cut from the same type of wood as your gunwales.  Gued in.  Sanded flush without marring the wood.
3 - Your pick of ~$200 retail of gear.  Perhaps you want a new paddle?  Maybe there's something in the store that you've always been curious about, but never willing to spend cash on.  Now's your chance.
  
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DentonDoc
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Re: What do you think?
Reply #9 - Mar 18th, 2011 at 4:18pm
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The correct solution is a function of what's in your head.  By that I mean, you need to have your problem solved in such a way that you don't spend any future time thinking about it.

I can think of nothing worse than you are at the end of the day, enjoying the outdoors in a restful moment.  Then you turn and see your canoe and your thought shift to "issues" with the canoe that occurred at the point of "delivery."  So, in terms of costs, THAT would be the what I'd seek to remedy.

dd
  
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