adjustable seat hangars (Read 3797 times)
Mountain_Paddler
Inukshuk
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adjustable seat hangars
Apr 2nd, 2011 at 8:46pm
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Some of the Wenonah canoes are available with this type of seat hangar.  It is intended so you can have a level seat for normal paddling but tip it forward for kneeling if you are going to attempt something serious.  It also allows you to adjust the seat height into a low position and a high position.

I have to replace/move the kneeling pedestals in the old Dagger Caper I bought used.  (The current configuration appears to produce the right trim for a 90-lb woman and 275 pound man).  This is strictly a whitewater boat.  I'm considering replacing them with these adjustable brackets and some standard cane seats.  Does anyone have any experience with these?  Are they really useful for their purpose?   :question   :question  The canoe is Royalex; gunwales are also plastic, and they already have lots of holes drilled in them.
  
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Preacher
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Re: adjustable seat hangars
Reply #1 - Apr 4th, 2011 at 1:49pm
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I like them.  The tilt foreward is also used with the foot bar or pegs when double-blading.

They make a lot of noise on the road.
  
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Mountain_Paddler
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Re: adjustable seat hangars
Reply #2 - Apr 5th, 2011 at 5:09am
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Oooh, thanks, Preacher.  I had thought of seats, knee pads, and thigh straps, but I forgot about the feet.  
  Hmmm?  Would a couple strategically placed pieces of foam or maybe some bungee cord solve the road noise problem?  I hate to admit I haven't figured out yet how to ignore something like that.  Immature?  Crotchety? Anal? Or what?   Huh
  I'm a novice at this and haven't tried a double-blade yet, except as a Caribbean tourist in a plastic thing.  We had a thirty-some boat multi-club paddle on the South Platte here in Colo a few weeks ago, and from what I saw, all canoes had single blades and all kayaks had double.  Mere culture, or what?  I'll have to ask Mad_Mat when I see him; he's got tons of river experience.
  
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Re: adjustable seat hangars
Reply #3 - Apr 5th, 2011 at 12:57pm
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You could likely silence it with some hunks of foam to stop the rattling.  Turn up the volume on the radio & sing along?  Just a small town girl, livin' in a lonely world!

Double-blading a canoe isn't going to get you kicked out of the club.  Standards have slippled in recent years.   Cheesy  Depending on the canoe it may not be practical, but any dedicated solo boat should work well.  My fat prospector would need a huge double-blade to keep from knocking gunwales on every stroke.
  
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Mad_Mat
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Re: adjustable seat hangars
Reply #4 - Apr 5th, 2011 at 1:12pm
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I don't think I've ever seen a WW boat where someone converted from saddle to seat.  Not sure how low you would have to hang the seat to maintain at least moderate stabilility while sitting.  Maybe you could get an idea of how low the seat would be from pictures of those hanges and put something in your boat to simulate that height and see if it will work before you buy one - just sitting in a lake will give you a good idea if that height will work.  One thing you can try is just putting some minicell foam on top of the saddle you have and see if just raising that up a few inches helps you out - just tape something over the saddle for a test - even if it does not solve the not being able to sit comfortably issue, it will give you a feel for how much stability you might lose by sitting x inches higher - you can gradually build up the height untill it is close to where you would have the new seat hung, and see how it feels.

I occasionally sit in my WW boat if on a quiet section of river, by perching atop the back of the saddle - it is quite tenuous, and I only sit that way for a few minutes to stretch my legs.  Without looking at the boat, I'd guess I was sitting at a height that is maybe 4" below the gunnels.  I wouldn't want to run thru anything more than a riffle that way.

I'd really suggest that rather than changeover a WW boat, you just keep an eye open for a decent river tripper on Craigslist.  For many of the trips I do, even old Coleman, Grumman, OT DIsco,  will work just fine, and you can pick one up for maybe $350 sometimes - I have seen several better  better river trippers posted for not much more. 

That way, you still have a boat capable of more serious WW, and a boat for more moderate stuff.   The right tool for the job is a lot better than trying to make do.
  
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Mountain_Paddler
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Re: adjustable seat hangars
Reply #5 - Apr 5th, 2011 at 3:07pm
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Thanks, MM.

MM saw how absolutely cramped I was after a short time on that pedestal.  I could hardly get out of my canoe, and it took 15 minutes before I could actually walk normally.  The problem is my one leg is slightly deformed (I was already fighting the world while being born), and my normal kneel position (like in church) brings my heels together behind me, toes rotated outward.  My pedestal forces my knees wide for stability but also keeps my heels apart about a foot with the toes straight down below the heels or extended backwards a bit, and I couldn't do that well.  I think that's a natural position for most folks, but not for me.  The pedestal straps in and can be removed in less that 10 minutes, so it is easy to remove it and experiment.  So experiment I will.

I'm up in years and so won't be doing any big, dangerous stuff.  So stability is not as much of a problem as it could be.  But I sure would like to at least do some II's and use my boat to do some river camping. There's not very much decent remote lake camping around here where you can take a canoe.  Most decent camping requires a healthy hike--or a river.  My back doesn't seem to like the backpacking any more.  So it's the canoe now or just camping out of the car.  Mat suggests raising the pedestal a bit.  That might help. I will do some experimenting on a lake--there's got to be a way to make this work.  I need to mostly sit and then slip into a kneel and strap in when needed.  Will let you all know what I figure out.  Thanks for the input.

And, yes, I have to remember to sing.  But only in the car with the windows closed--my voice is loud enough, I'd ruin everyone's week within miles around me.   Grin
  
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solotripper
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Re: adjustable seat hangars
Reply #6 - Apr 5th, 2011 at 3:59pm
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I'm a dedicated double paddler. I'm a big believer in using what works for you. Some here use them very successfully, others have tried them and hated them. From what I can tell, it seems like the more experienced paddlers who are lucky enough to get out a lot, find them unwieldy after a traditional paddle. I'm sure a dedicated kayak er would feel the same with a canoe paddle. Your using a different set of muscles than with single paddle, but if your in moderate shape I don't think it's a problem.
For me, they really shine when your heading into a stiff wind or have one at your back. You can really fly then. I take a traditional paddle for trolling  while fishing or when conditions warrant using a J-Stroke to keep on course.
I needed a longer double paddle than a true solo, because I paddle a rented  SR16 tandem backward from the bow. My double paddle is 9 ft which with a " rolling" cruising stroke eliminates it banging on the gunnel's.

I'd try a double first and even if you like it, I'd buy a cheaper one until you see how it works for you on a trip with daily use.
My paddle is air-craft aluminum shaft/ Plastic paddle. Not the lightest, but stiff and strong and I don't have to baby it, like you might with a high end carbon fiber one. I even use it as a walking stick thru muddy portage holes, and in 2 pieces, I used it as fly poles with my Dry-Fly.
I payed $50 for it from Mohawk Canoes and it has more than met my expectations.
  
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Mad_Mat
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Re: adjustable seat hangars
Reply #7 - Apr 6th, 2011 at 12:49pm
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if you can easily switch back and forth between the saddle and bench seat, that is different, and you can likely hang the seat wherever you want to, assuming you don't loose too much stability.  Keep in mind that if you will be kneeling from that seat occasionally, then it needs to be high enough to avoid foot entrapment under it.    They make ankle supports for ww boats - kind of a half cylinder with the flat down and crosswise to support the ankle - you might look arouns for something like that to help support the ankles when kneeling.  Mohawk sells some "ankle blocks" that are wedge shaped so you can tilt your feet at the ankles - that is another option ( see mohawk canoes.com / outfitting store/  ankle blocks ) - the mini cell blocks are easy to install, just takes contact cement you can buy anywhere
  
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