25 Are you a selfish adventurer? (Read 30539 times)
Snow_Dog
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Re: Are you a selfish adventurer?
Reply #40 - Mar 20th, 2012 at 12:11am
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I have been discussing this with my wife as I plan some crazy wild ass adventures in the parks and she has pointed out that while she has no real issue if I want to die or lay suffering in the woods, what she has a problem with is everyone who is left behind with unanswered questions and the responsibility of finding a body should I fail to return. The technology has improved to the point that price and availability no longer are reasons to go on an adventure without some form of "help" signaling device. So, are we being overly selfish when we want to maintain some of the risk in a wilderness canoe trip?


I have soloed exactly once before and I rented a sat phone at the insistance of my wife.  I was a bit reluctant to do so as I have a few dozen trips under my belt and was fully confident in my abilities.  However, I aquiesced to her wishes when it became clear that the issue was NOT my own confidence in my abilities but rather the worry that she would have gone through for the 9-day duration of the trip.  Mrs. Snow_Dog has a PhD in worrying  Roll Eyes and I knew she'd be a wreck if I didn't have the means to summon help.

I also have 3 young kids and have no desire to turn Mrs. Snow_Dog into a single parent against her wishes...or mine.  So I caved.

The problem I ran into was that with the sat-phone came an expectation to "check in" every 2-3 days.  That part, I was NOT happy about.  I mean, I go up there to truly escape civilization and all it's attendant responsibilities.  Last thing I want to be dealing with on a canoe trip is stories about the kids fighting, the car needing a repair, the latest work-related issues she's dealing with, etc.  But that's who she is.  She HAS to talk these things out with SOMEBODY because that's how she deals with stress and if I'm available, I'm the go-to guy.  51 weeks a year I enjoy being able to lighten her burdens in this way.  But on a wilderness trip?  No thanks.

So is it fair for me to be selfish in the sense that I really don't want to open myself up to these conversations on a wilderness trip?  On the one hand, it significantly diminishes the value of my trip.  But on the other, my wife simply cannot comprehend my need to have some time away from the pressure of civilization, family, etc.  She'd be very hurt if I carry a sat phone but insisted on NOT making use of it to check in periodically.

All these issues make the SPOT device seem like a much better alternative for ME.  And when I'm tripping with others, I've been able to successfully defend my unwillingness to carry a means of contact.  But now that she's experienced the sat phone, the SPOT may no longer be an option.  We shall see, as I will be soloing again this year which means the issue is going to come up again.

Riskwise, I know the rules are different when soloing.  I'm not taking stupid chances regardless of whether I can summon help at the push of a button.  I had one bad experience on Basswood in a huge wind on my previous solo that definitely changed the way I assess risk while traveling alone.

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Further, should the parks maybe start requiring the use of phones or SPOTs?


I could see them eventually requiring users to sign a waiver if they choose not to use a signalling device of some kind but I highly doubt they'd be successful in a push for mandatory useage.  I get the potential liability but the waiver would answer that without stepping on a user's desire to be as free from technology as they choose to be.
  
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Kerry
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Re: Are you a selfish adventurer?
Reply #41 - Mar 20th, 2012 at 1:51am
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I have an immediate resistance to using electronic "devices" out in the bush for all the reasons mentioned already, namely I'm going out there to get unplugged, not plug in.  However, I don't solo and my tandem partner is my wife, so if sh$t should ever hit the fan she'll be the first to know (she always is!)
That being said, I do have a 91 year old mother-in-law and my wife just didn't feel comfortable going off without having any way of knowing if something should happen to her.  What we did last summer was take a SAT phone with voice message capability.  No one was to call us unless it was an emergency and we'd check calls every evening.  Thankfully there never was a call and we found the whole process very unobtrusive.  Under those circumstances I was very happy that we had access the satellite techology, it allowed my wife to rest easy and when my wife rests easy, I rest easy - trust me.
  
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db
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Re: Are you a selfish adventurer?
Reply #42 - Mar 20th, 2012 at 5:52am
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I agree $35 a great price BUT it's the - what, $100 yearly to make it go that's over the top for me. Between gas, fees, fishing license ... my ~2 weeks a year of use can't justify it. Plus, I agree with whoever compared it to a PFD. I often think that when I put mine on I should just go for a walk instead ... DOH! That would make it even harder to find my corpse wouldn't it? See I just can't win.  Grin
  
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monjon
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Re: Are you a selfish adventurer?
Reply #43 - Mar 20th, 2012 at 1:40pm
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Isn't the whole idea of going to the wilderness ,at least subconsciously, to somehow connect with those people who used the area in earlier times? And to experience life free of modern conveniences and worries? 

I go with another person and try to be careful so as not to injury myself or fall out of the canoe. If I have an MI then not sure having a SPOT is going to get anyone there fast enough to save me anyway.  Even 10-15 years ago no one used such devices.  Can't recall reading about losing too many paddlers then.

I for one won't be using a SPOT or cell phone.
  
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Marten
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Re: Are you a selfish adventurer?
Reply #44 - Mar 20th, 2012 at 2:59pm
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Oh, if everything always goes according to plan. A neighbor related the story of being flown it to a remote fishing cabin. One of his buddies was having trouble getting the wood stove in the cabin going and put in a little gas. The explosion and fire burned him very badly. This was before sat phones and spots were even thought of. For days they kept someone outside to signal if a plane came by. The burned man screamed in pain all this time. Eventually a plane came by and delivered the burn victim to a hospital just in time to save his life. I am in favor of taking the devices because, IT IS NOT ABOUT ME!!
  
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Re: Are you a selfish adventurer?
Reply #45 - Mar 20th, 2012 at 5:28pm
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If you have kids under driving age you know your responsibilities & priorities.  This is, of course, mitigated by several factors.  Your skill at tripping.  How remote you'll be.  How much your family worries.

I suppose in any spouse relationship it's up to the spouses to find their own way.  My Mrs. is happy just hearing from me once I'm back at the car.

Lots of non-trippers have some crazy ideas about what can and what does happen out there.  Bears & wolves aren't going to get us.  Hypothermia is more likely.  In 20 years of tripping I've been late getting home once.  Mrs. can't make that same claim in a comparable number of nights out with friends.

I'm not a fan of giving in to unreasonable fears, even my own.  Our loved ones need to understand the reality.


Anyone who thinks that going out there connects us to those who lived out there is foolilng themselves.  Life back then was ugly, brutish, and short.  If you're over 40 odds are you would have been dead already.  If you wear shoes, bring food, have a canoe that weighs under 100lbs, have a backpack, etc... you're not connected to them.  We're hobbyists who take the factory-built modern world with us.  The solo-tripper being the most hobby-like of us (that means me).  Exile was the toughest punishment.  It was impossible for a single person to survive for long.  While one person goes out and gets food for everyone another person stays home and makes clothing for everyone someone else gathers nuts & berries yet another works on making the tools.  There aren't enough hours in the day for one person to survive the way they did.  When you're alone with no food, no canoe, no pack, no shelter, and no means other than walking to get out of there on a rainy November day - then you might understand as they did.
We do it to escape.  That's why everyone does everything they do when they have their own time to spend, not company time, not family time, not school time - MY TIME.  The 2 hours between me getting home and Mrs. getting home is MY TIME.  The Tahiti Syndrome runs deep in us, but the reality of actually doing it up here is pretty bleak.
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Great example Marten.
  
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Re: Are you a selfish adventurer?
Reply #46 - Mar 20th, 2012 at 5:38pm
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monjon wrote on Mar 20th, 2012 at 1:40pm:
Even 10-15 years ago no one used such devices. 

I find this to be fundamentally invalid logic.  With this alone there would be no progress.  Ignoring that there wouldn't be Kevlar, there wouldn't be cedar/canvas or even canoes at all. 

Here's a fun exercise.  Try this on your wife.  Tell her that for years women didn't have rights, didn't need rights.  Ergo, they don't need them now.

It's all relative based on when one started.  Look at the Luddites.  They never claim to actually avoid all technology, just the newer stuff introduced since they got started.  The Amish would love zippers if they got started in the 20th century instead of the 16th.  I've never seen anyone refuse to use simple machines, levers/inclined planes/and such.

Things need to be valid on their own right.

Cheesy
  
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Jimbo
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Re: Are you a selfish adventurer?
Reply #47 - Apr 7th, 2012 at 12:09pm
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intrepid_camper wrote on Mar 17th, 2012 at 9:16pm:
Yes, Jimbo, you should JUST GET a Spot.  I pay for the tracking feature in my yearly fees.  Then I can use it to follow my exact bushwack route on Google maps, where my campsites were, etc. and print it out when I get home to add to my journal.  I sometimes will use it to determine how long it took me to cover a certain distance...the posts back home to the computer also register the time of day and date.  Since I do not carry a watch it is sometimes interesting to see how early or late I got out of camp or made camp each day.  You  could use it to mark where you saw that moose, or bear, or even the location of your best lucky fishing holes.  Cheesy



Okay, okay... I reached my "tipping point" on this issue over the campfire in my neighbor's driveway last night.  I agreed to take his 15 year-old son on as my "paddling partner" for my mid-July loop from Bottle through to McIntyre, Burt, Brent, Wicksteed, & McAree.  Something about the mother's heightened anxieties got to me.  The father, an attorney, never blinked an eye.  [Apparently a co-worker of his lurks around QJ & is an avid reader of the BWJ and - despite knowing something about me - told the father his son would likely survive the experience with or without a SPOT2.]

Anyway, as soon as I walked back into the house, I made the purchase using one of those DD "Best Buy" deals.  That way, when my sciatica kicks in while I'm climbing some cliff and over-I-go, at least the search party will be able to follow our "tracks" to our last known location (the SPOT2, you see, will likely be in my pocket as I plunge into the abyss and the kid might not be able to fetch it from my new location at the bottom of the adjacent lake).

So, I caved & bought the danged thing.  Somehow, when it was just people worrying about ME, it just didn't matter... I KNOW I'm going to come out OK (definition includes: even if I DON'T come out, Quetico is a nice final resting place so it all "comes out OK"...  if you catch my drift).  On the other hand, to have valued neighbors worrying about their son on his very first wilderness adventure with their kooky neighbor for twelve whole days??  The peace of mind & good will the SPOT2 will buy me with them makes the SPOT2 a good choice at ANY price.

C'est la vie, mes amis....

Jacques-bo   Cool
  
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mastertangler
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Re: Are you a selfish adventurer?
Reply #48 - Apr 14th, 2012 at 7:53pm
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sitting in the Toyota dealership..........wife hated the Prius. Ended up with a Camry.........a bit classier.

Isn't this whole discussion about being in control of ones own situation via technology? If you have never gone down it is easy to be cavalier about it. I certainly was.

Now in the back of my mind is "if it happened once it could happen again". What a SAT phone or a SPOT does is allow for some peace of mind. I can still enjoy a carefree attitude without self doubt hovering over my head knowing that a floatplane is but a phone call away. This becomes even more important as one ages and the illusion of indestructability is gone.

  
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knafelc
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Re: Are you a selfish adventurer?
Reply #49 - Apr 15th, 2012 at 12:11am
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-with every loss there a gain...with every gain there is a loss. I've been hoping that this whole computer/techno thing would go out of style as some bad dream/poor taste idea of the marginalized youth and antisocial neard sector.  But alas! (is that still a word ?)-hopes of that actually happening,are right up there with the hopes of the guys who at the turn of the last century,hoped that the internal combustion engine and electricity(not to mention fences), would  just please go away...
  
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