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 25 Are you a selfish adventurer? (Read 30544 times)
Kingfisher
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Are you a selfish adventurer?
Mar 16th, 2012 at 4:27am
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In another thread discussing the SPOT messenger service Prouboy raises the point that using sat phones and SPOT devices removes some of the adventure from a wilderness canoe trip. I have been discussing this with my wife as I plan some crazy wild ass adventures in the parks and she has pointed out that while she has no real issue if I want to die or lay suffering in the woods, what she has a problem with is everyone who is left behind with unanswered questions and the responsibility of finding a body should I fail to return. The technology has improved to the point that price and availability no longer are reasons to go on an adventure without some form of "help" signaling device. So, are we being overly selfish when we want to maintain some of the risk in a wilderness canoe trip? Further, should the parks maybe start requiring the use of phones or SPOTs?
  
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db
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Inukshuk
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Re: Are you a selfish adventurer?
Reply #1 - Mar 16th, 2012 at 6:05am
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Selfish? Aren't we all? We deserve it damn it.  Cool

I'm all for minimizing risk while doing what you wanna do and to me personally, price point is a hurdle I have no desire to broach knowing that something would be a gadget I'd not want to use anyway ... but then, I don't share your wanderlust at this point in my life. So, if my wife asked forcefully? I'd give her a hug and say I love you too dear.

Until then, a detailed itinerary works well for us but my kid is younger so I feel an obligation to not be quite as adventurous ... risk, as in no return is no longer an option I'm willing to accept - for a few more years anyway. Wink
  
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knafelc
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Re: Are you a selfish adventurer?
Reply #2 - Mar 16th, 2012 at 10:13am
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"Crazy and wildass" seem to be the key triggers here. I still resent being burdened with the "tracking device" that is my cell phone. These comunication devices have profoundly added and subtracted diminsions to human life in the 21st century the way electricity and the internal combustion engine did at the begining of the 20th. Women and children seem to have imidiately embraced these encombrances that let them feel never alone,able to instantly transport themselves to the company of someone and someplace other ..." it "has shrunk the world irrevocably. The escape from this mutation of "the real world" is one the reasons I flee to the wilderness where I can "be here now".   ...that said,I have thought that I would like to give my family the comfort of letting them know where I'm at when I'm on a solo. Wonder if I could get a SPOT stapled to my ear? I imaigine that's being worked out right now.            ...   "My heros have always been cowboys... ,and I guess that they still are today."  W.Nelson
  
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wally
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Re: Are you a selfish adventurer?
Reply #3 - Mar 16th, 2012 at 10:44am
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my wife will just move on.  lack of a body means it will take longer to get her mitts on the cash
  
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BillConner
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Re: Are you a selfish adventurer?
Reply #4 - Mar 16th, 2012 at 12:31pm
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I think the problem with many of these issues is the one answer fits all, which sometimes becomes a my way or the highway approach.  Probably the thing I love most about  tripping in Quetico is not being tethered to my Blackberry, as I have to the rest of the year to pay for these too few weeks.  So I reject the idea of a sat phone entirely, but my wife does want to know where I am and that I'm OK - I'm sure safer than she is in Chicago suburbs - so a Spot (forgive me) hits the spot.  Taking it out of my pack wehn I make camp, pushihg a few buttons and letting it sit for 30 minutes or so, is not too intrusive.  If it was not for my wife, I might consider a PLB instead, but I don't really feel I'm at that great of risk so probably would carry nothing.

But whatever suits and fits you is great.
  
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mastertangler
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Re: Are you a selfish adventurer?
Reply #5 - Mar 16th, 2012 at 12:40pm
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Maybe I'm a pragmatist........I used to think I was basically indestructible in the woods. Many months hoofin big loads off trail......lots of nights crawlin through swamps tryin to keep up with my dog. Nobody ever knew where I was at and I never gave it a second thought.

Having experienced something going wrong and being basically incapacitated was a wake up call. And that was not even life threatening just rather supremely frustrating that I was going to have to sit there for many, many days........no thanks, I'm busy, time to move on.

Yup, I will always have SAT and probably a SPOT with me from now on. Peace of mind to know I can get on with life should something happen to me or my boat. Call for a floatplane or rescue........Certainly small enough, light enough. Might even save someones life. Besides, if your gone for more than a few weeks it might be nice to hear the voices of those you care for and vica-versa.
  
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Mad_Mat
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Re: Are you a selfish adventurer?
Reply #6 - Mar 16th, 2012 at 12:54pm
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"So, are we being overly selfish when we want to maintain some of the risk in a wilderness canoe trip?"

selfish ?  maybe, but anything we want for ourselves is being selfish, so who cares.  My view, if you are electronically tethered to civilization, you ain't in the wilderness buddy.  Its either/or, not both  - if you can't hack being in "the wilderness", then don't go. Haul your security blaket with you and eliminate teh wilderness from your canoe trips - whichever 

Further, should the parks maybe start requiring the use of phones or SPOTs?

Absolutely not!  Maybe "they" should implant gps tracking chips is everybody - lots of good reasons to do that - makes catching criminals easy,  you can find out where you are if lost, etc.  Hell, lets bolt GoPro camers to everybody's forehead while were at it, so you can't lie about stopping at that stop sign when you caused a car crash.   Lots of this is almost already here, what with all the tracking they already do with cell pbones, and secrurity cameras and intersection camers all over the place.  Homeland security can look at your computer anytime thye want to to see what nonsense your up to - Big Brother IS WATCHING
  
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mastertangler
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Re: Are you a selfish adventurer?
Reply #7 - Mar 16th, 2012 at 2:31pm
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Canoe adventurists are an independent lot.......I encourage that. I am reminded of an event in a recent book I read where Verlen kruger and his dear friend Jerry set out to canoe the White River in Ontario. The first day they came to a falls.......Verlen hit the portage while Jerry was swept past. He managed to grab onto a limb but the current took his boat. Verlen and Jerrys eyes locked......the implications being realized. Jerry went to retrieve his boat and was never seen again. I pondered that for some time. Was "peer" pressure partly responsible for Jerry's actions? Quite probable. It cost him his life.

There are many here on QJ I admire a great deal. The originator of this thread has achieved a mythic canoe hero status for me. But I have decided that I will choose what is best for myself and I think you should to. There is some notion that being able to have contact with the outside world is somehow impinging on the wilderness experience. Reality, however, has a way of inserting itself on our most deeply held beliefs and I believe this is one such scenario.

If you are with a group I can understand not having any device especially if the group is fairly young and fit. As the party ages I think the risk that someone might need medical attention rises significantly. Just read BWJ where there are numerous such stories. If someone in your party goes down with any number of serious injuries the concept of calling in help instead of attending a funeral becomes very attractive.

On the other hand my idea is you stow the device and basically forget it. If you call mommy every night, yea, that might sort of ruin your time as you get to hear about the bills and how Mary and Bobby are fighting. My biggest problem with the SAT is going to be explaining to my wife I'm not going to be calling her all the time.

But lets move on.........solo is a different animal. I like being in control. Captain of my own ship (lest I get pegged unfairly my philosophy on group trips is "do what you want"). When i went down in WCPP I would not of been in control of my destiny had I not had the SPOT. I would of been at the mercy of others. I would of had to wait on that sandbar for who knows how long and then I would of had to ask passerby's for help. And not only help to get to the EP but also a ride to town. A massive sacrifice for someone to have to do. I might of ruined some one else's trip.  That is unacceptable IMO and thus my desire to remain independent and in control. Anyway.......decide for yourself. I have spent more time in the woods than the average bear and the thought that it would detract from my experience has never crossed my mind.

Long winded I know. I had plenty of time to think as I was biking (I'm going to write a book......."How to become a wimp in 6 months")
  
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Preacher
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Re: Are you a selfish adventurer?
Reply #8 - Mar 16th, 2012 at 5:01pm
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Logic & Reason

Anything we do purely for our own enjoyment is inherently selfish.  There's nothing wrong with that.  Our loved ones do deserve some reasonable degree of security, we do love them after all!

I disagree that bringing SPOT/PLB/SatPhone reasonably cheapens the experience any more than kevlar, ripstop nylon, and modern shoes do.  They're all just tools.  If you choose not to use them, that's your right.

Non-trippers have strange ideas about the risks.  The first step is to educate them.  Your phobia is not my problem.  You have a great chance of being killed by going to the office than I do by paddling to the next campsite.  If you actually love your family and friends you'll be happy to take reasonable steps to reduce their reasonable anxiety.

I think anyone who feels these emergency exit tools cheapen the experience have yet to have a true emergency experience.

Money comes into it.  I can't afford these tools.  Fortunately my loved ones have reasonable worries.  If/when I get to do several weeks in a very remote area with no reasonable chance of seeing anyone else I would rent a SatPhone.

Here's one very sad example.  His family still has hope.  Missing since November.  I hope he found what he was looking for.
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My float plans are emailed out with the subject, "Where to drag for my body."   Cheesy
  
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Kingfisher
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Re: Are you a selfish adventurer?
Reply #9 - Mar 16th, 2012 at 8:39pm
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I can tell by most of the responses that a big part of my concern is no being addressed so I'll explain further. My wife has been tripping out of a canoe longer than I, some 40 years. She introduced me to canoe country in 1977. She absolutely knows what it's all about. She does not really have anxiety about my safety although that is surely part of it. She is concerned about the practical aspect of a lost or missing person. A situation that can be almost entirely avoided by using the tools that are available today.
Think about it you preserve your sense of adventure and gone off alone into the wilderness with no means to reach anyone. You become lost, injured or dead. Now you have unfairly burdened your loved ones with the avoidable anxiety of a search and rescue. When do you call it off - who decides? When do you give up hope? You have possibly deprived the people you love the most with the answers they desire for proper closure.

All of the most serious adventures (Everest climbers radio relays, around the world sailors, spelunkers etc.)taking place today use ALL of the tools available to them to ensure a rescue if things go badly. Are those not adventures then?
  
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