I am serious about getting up to Opasquia during the 2014 paddling season. I am starting a new thread so anyone else so inclined can be part of the endeavor. It is not going to be easy or cheap. The portages that served the outpost cabins suffered heavy wind damage last August. Wally mentioned in previous thread that shore line is not very inviting. Canoe visits are really rare up there, information is rarer. SOUNDS GREAT DOESN'T IT!!

I might even be able to come up with a map or two:

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From what I understand, the drill is to fly from Red Lake to Sandy Lake (First Nation settlement) on a commercial carrier (e.g., Wasaya Airlines) and then take a float plane from there to the a drop off point in Opasquia.  The obvious problem with this is the commercial carrier won't be configured to carry a canoe (and, for those who have been following the tales my latest canoe acquisition, the reason that I bought a fold-up canoe for the coming season's fly-in trip -- otherwise known as "baggage").

dd

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I'm interested.  Will check in on this thread to see how Marten's questions get answered. 

prouboy

Man, I wish I had even two weeks I could spend on a trip like this.  But I don't think there's any way I can hit a 2014 retirement date since I don't play the lottery.

I will be one of the eager readers/listeners when the tale is told, for sure.

Hey folks, just to update everyone a little, I am currently working on a price that would allow paddlers to take advantage of a scheduled "back haul" system.  If we can make this work, the costs would obviously be greatly reduced, although it's still a very long flight from our base in Red Lake.

I don't see going to Sandy Lake as an option as you would still need a floatplane to take you from Sandy into the park. 

In checking out the rates on scheduled flights from Red Lake to Sandy Lake, you're looking at a cost of over $600 / person return and you would not be able to bring your canoe on board...yikes!

I'm also looking at options of having solo or tandem canoes waiting up there which could also reduce cost as there would be no need for external load.

I'm confident I'll be able to secure a rate that'll work for everyone and it'll be a direct flight.

I'll post again when we've figured out some rates.

Harlan

There are no Otters' running out of the Red Lake region with approvals for carrying canoes as external loads. Also, at 293 Km (180 miles) or there about's an Otter would be very, very expensive.

Harlan

Solotrip wrote on Feb 8^th, 2013 at 2:51pm:


Harlan -- thanks for working on this!  I'm still working on a trip to WCPP or the Bloodvein this year.  Will you be at the Midwest Mountaineering Outdoor Expo in April?

prouboy

Harlan -

Thanks for doing the ground work for this.  Your numbers are pretty much what I expected.  Are we talking about 3-3 1/2 hours flight time one way?  (Would the flight crew provide refreshments?  )

And ... do I understand correctly that permits and camping fees would be more like accessing crown land since OPP is a non-operating park?  Certainly, that expense is nominal when compared to the cost of the flight, but if that is correct, what would be a ball park number, per night.

Again ... thank you so much!!!

dd

Jimbo,

Yes, there are plenty of suitable trees for hammock sleeping in Opasquia. I have searched the woods for blueberries many times on several of the lakes over the years and you can find plenty of sleeping sights for hammocks.

Seeing as I have not seen any canoeists in the 25 plus years I have been there ... there aren't any cleared campsites that I know about. I have seen a few old Indian hunting camps back in the woods on several lakes. I just followed a few shoreline paths and a few turned out to be old tarped log cabin camps. Most paths were beaver or moose trails.

I will be up on South Lake the 2nd week August ....8/10 - 8/17/13 fishing with my buds. If you plan to go then ... stop in for a few beers and supper if you like.

Lakes are stained and have plenty of walleye and pike and perch. I have not caught a laker.

I will be at Canoecopia and we can visit Friday and/or Saturday night.

Mike (Wally13)

A big thanks to Harlan at Red Lake Outfitters for getting us a ball park price estimate on this endeavor. The final costs for each paddler will now have more to do with how efficiently we can use each leg of these flights. It is evident that solo boats will incur the higher costs. If it would help the flow of things I have a Wenonah Spirit II in Royalex that could be used on an early trip and left up there for others to use.

I plan on being there for about a month in July or August. In the past I have had partners switch out with new recruits mid-trip. There are a lot of options open to us.

Agreed. If say six paddlers in three groups would commit, split it all six ways.
Also, if Harlan did want to get any canoes up there and leave them, maybe he'd swing a deal where the persons paddling these the first time would get free rental if they foot the bill for getting them there. Both parties win... sort of.

Thanks to everyone who have thought this through to this point. I am VERY interested! Will be anxious to see what develops.

dd -

I've probably had no better than 50% success rate finding WCPP campsites where they allegedly existed on various maps.

Opasquia?!?!?

I'm betting < 25% hit rate!

As for me, I'm planning on swinging from the trees... there are bound to be enough suitable shelter prospects that way.  For those w/true tents?  Well, your symbols DO provide places to start looking for campsites, anyway.

Thanks for your work on this.  At least rapids, waterfalls, & such aren't likely to change much over the years!

Jimbo   

I have been enjoying the ease of moving around on this G4 map. East Lake has so many days of paddling on its various tentacles. A few portages around some rapids and many more days of paddling on long narrow waterways lay ahead. Plans for Opasquia 2014 are moving along well.

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Any more progress on nailing down prices or dates for this trip?

Might be a good idea to get some approximate dates so others can plan. I know that it's a ways off, but it will creep up fast in the end.

Is Viking our best bet for air travel? Who flies for Big Hook?
What are their canoe rates? I'm only asking in case someone has already checked rates. Otherwise, I'm fine with emailing them.
Would also be nice to have a list of people whose plans are definite, and definite-maybe's. So far, I AM IN. Put me on the list.
Do others have thoughts of what route they would plan? Obviously there are a lot of interconnected waterways that one could paddle with presumably fewer portages, but it'd be nice if peoples plans were in the open so others could shoot off in other directions for the sake of gathering more info about the park.
Ok, so I am obviously excited here and maybe jumping the gun a little. It just sounds like a great trip and I am anxious to plan!
Joe

Anyone that has plans to be in on this could post their wishes here. I am assuming that this thing will take up half the summer. I hope to spend 4-5 weeks up there.

I did E-mail Big Hook Camps about their canoes but received no response. I would like to talk to them but have not called.

If we have a list of committed paddlers and their preference for dates and duration  of stay we can start more planning. Once we lay out a schedule for 4-6 weeks we would have a better grasp on the final cost. It is going to depend on how efficiently we can use each leg of the plane flights.

If we can have three paddlers on every flight it will be cheapest. This would allow the common canoe to be used and another could be taken in and out on each trip. Pak canoes will add to the versatility.

There is so much that can be done to make this work easier. I would like to see common info packets that each group could add details to and leave for the next group.   

Joe -

I'm hoping to meet up with you and Steve on Friday, Apr 26th at the Midwest show.  I know that both Harlan and Claire plan to attend, so maybe we can all (including Jimbo) get together at some point during that weekend. 

Although I haven't coordinated any of this with Jimbo yet, my plan goes something like this:

My preference would be for mid- to late-July put-in for a 2 week "on-the-water" trip (but being retired, I have plenty of flexibility on this).

My understanding is that East Lake would likely serve as an operational hub for this adventure.  With East Lake having in excess of 20 miles of "straight line" paddling (you'd actually make something like a "J" route) before hitting the class 2-3 rapids headed west toward Cocos or Joint Lakes, I'd likely spend much of my time exploring that lake and the multitude of side channels.  If I decide to do an out-and-back headed west, I'd first check out the 80 rod "portage" south of the rapids.  Going to the south end of East Lake, I'd be interested in checking out the abandoned Native American fish camps, but would not likely proceed any further south than that due to what I've seen labeled as a "heavy use" area in the lake just beyond (and just beyond that you get into an area that is served by the main lodge of Big Hook Outfitters).  There is also a glacial moraine that approaches the shoreline in this area that might also be interesting to see.

I have a solo pakcanoe which should facilitate things a bit, since it can be loaded as "gear" in the plane.  I'll insure its efficacy for such a trip with a fly-in/fly-out trip to WCPP this year. (Actually I can configure it for a tandem, but I don't believe it suitable for that purpose for anything longer than a weekend-type trip.)

I'd be OK with a group of 3 (seems the cheapest way to do it) where a tandem canoe might be strapped on the floats with an opportunity for each to swap positions in the available water craft.

I do fish, but enjoy exploring at least as much ... and I don't have to make a lot of miles to have fun.

dd

You missed Joe (portagekeeper).

And, you don't necessarily need 8 weeks if some of the trips overlap by a week (might have more than 1 party in the park at a time).  However, this does complicate scheduling just a little.  Given the overlapping scenario, it would even be possible for a few 1 week trips.

dd

Marten wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2013 at 3:37am:

Agreed.  In addition, the single tandem canoe awating the next crew would also have an additional level of complication.

In the end, simple is better.  (But should it get beyond that, I believe I have ample tools at my disposal to deal with the problem ... and my personal time is not really an issue.)

dd

Marten and all,

       I am in with Joe (portagekeeper) assuming the logistics and cost work out. Joe and I prefer a later time which seems to fit with what has been discussed already by others. Ideally we would enter after 8/15 and it could be a little later for a 10-14 day trip.

     I am also planning on being at MWM with Wayne and Jimbo to talk to Harlan-Joe is thinking of joining us.

    As we get closer, we get logistics figured out and we get people to commit we should consider deposits as a show of good faith and commitment. It won't do any of us any good if people talk about going but never seriously make the commitment-it could derail the effort quickly.

Bogs

I now have 14 that want in on this trip. I have myself, Denton Doc, Majic Paddler, Prouboy, Bogwalker, Jimbo, Northman, Mike Kinz., Hogan, Bob B, Portagekeeper, Waleswalker, Nctry and Farmer. Have I missed anyone?

I agree that we will need to start getting firm commitments. Lets see what you that are attending the Midwest show come up with.

I want to spend at least 4 weeks in Opasquia. Whether I am solo or tandem does not matter. July 1 would be the earliest that I could start but am free until fall after that. I like to wander and seek out routes.

The trip schedule would work most efficiently if the first trip up and the last one up and out had a Pak boat in the plane.

With so much interest being shown I felt it was only right to contact Big Hook Camps so they would have an idea of our intentions. They are really interested in talking with me in the morning. They have two canoes up there. If this can be worked  out it could open up Opasquia for more canoe use in the years to come.

Magicpaddler wrote on Apr 4^th, 2013 at 11:05pm:

I am going to make a list of questions, any others?

This is what I found out from Steve at Big Hook Camps.

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I told him we were only interested in transportation and canoe rental.

Flight cost using wheeled aircraft to Sandy Lake and then floatplane to their base camp on Central Lake where the canoes are kept and back to Red Lake. $500

He told me the canoes weighed 70 lbs but knew nothing else about them. He was not the one who usually deals with the canoes but thought the rental was $40 per day.

Their operation is set up with all guest arriving and departing on Saturday. Longer canoe trips would need to end on a Saturday.

They charter all the flights and so the charter has rules and limits. 100 pounds per person, $1.75 per pound for each additional pound for the first hundred over the limit, then higher.

They have a small plane that they use for camp checks but it is not used commercially. This means that all trips would start and end at Central Lake with no other options available from them.

I mentioned that some might be bringing in Pak boats in a duffle bag. That puzzled him but I explained that that was becoming more common.

There is fire damage in areas because they are not put out.

There is a 50 mile loop that goes west from Central Lake and goes through the top of South Lake and then NW up to West Lake before returning to Central Lake via the south part of East Lake. Portages are not maintained but he said this was a known route.

The many miles of the top of East Lake are very shallow. He said most is about 3 feet.

He is a little concerned about a bunch of paddlers coming in. There seems to be some lakes that he stays off of in an understanding with some First Nation people. We were going to get more of this info by E-mail later. For the first month after ice-out and again after Labor Day the First Nation are using the waters the most. For the summer months activity is at the lowest level.

There are no known Pictographs.

Walleye, Northern and Perch are the only fish.

I have had a day to ponder this new approach and it looks like an attractive alternative. This would simplify the whole process as each party would be scheduling and running their own trips.

At this point I am looking at making it up there this summer using Big Hook. Solo or with others is undecided. I am waiting for more info on those canoes. It may be time to purchase a Pak Boat like DD's. If I was outfitted for four weeks with a Pak Boat I would probably use all of the 100 pound over weight charge. If I used their tandem and had a change of partner after two weeks we would probably fit easily with the allowed baggage rate of 100 pounds each.

Thoughts?

DentonDoc wrote on Apr 6^th, 2013 at 2:17pm:


I could not find an answer for that but their web site is packed with info and maps. Some special perks too for those who desire!

Beer & Soda Pop are available at our camp. If you wish to place an order, please call or email our office well in advance (at least three weeks ) before your arrival at camp. Your order will be delivered to your outpost camp. The cost is: $3.25 a US/Can of beer or $1.75 US/Can of soda pop.

Guys,

I have been reading your blog about doing Opasquia Provincial Park in 2013. I have been doing fly-in trips to this park via Big Hook for 23 years. 

Thought  I might throw in a few comments to give you a better understanding of how Big Hook operates. Bottomline, I really like the walleye fishing in this park.   I have been to several of the Big Hook camps over the years including Cocos, Southwest, West and South Lakes. Southwest has loads of 13 - 17 inch walleyes, in fact incredible numbers...just not very big ones. Cocos and West have a great combination of walleyes and northerns ...numbers and size.

I have settled in on South Lake for the past 15 years and normally go the 2nd week of August. I will be there Sat 8/10 - Sat 8/17/13 with 4 buds of mine .Its the smallest cabin of all the lakes but I like the numbers and potential for large walleyes here. Northern fishing is just OK.  They provide 15 hp  four stroke motors  with 14 - 16 ft LUNDS and gas for a week and provide staples like potatoes, beans, canned fruit and vegs, cooking oil, onions, etc, ...you just bring meat and whatever. There is a shower and oven  and outdoor grill. Bring sleeping bags... and you sleep on bunk beds with foam mattress.

I usually overnight at Balmertown Hotel  on Friday night before trip ... comfortable rooms ...and nice restaurant for so far north.

You leave Red Lake at predesigned time on a Saturday usually at 2 hours intervals starting at 6:30 am then 8:30 am  etc, You fly out of Wayasa Airport which is adjacent to to Red Lake Airport. You will park your vehicle at Waysaya airport for your duration. You will park in a fenced in area. You will leave your keys with airport personnel and they will have your vehicle waiting for you ready to exit the airport upon your arrival back from your trip.

We have always flew out in a 9 passenger turbo prop plane. You land in Sandy Lake usually in a 1 hour flight. Sandy Lake is a large 1st Nation  Indian reservation. It is a very sandy looking colored lake ... not sure why anyone would want to put a reservation on such a tan muddy colored lake. It is alcohol free on the reservation so you must pack in any liquor in a box or at least packed away unseen. There is a 100 lb limit on gear flying in and of course our group has  always been overweight as we bring in 8 - 10 cases of beer and a assortment of scotch and other whiskey's. The Ontario government is really cracking down on weight limits by the aircraft you are flying in. We used to be able to throw on some extra packs but now they weigh everything.

Steve @ Big Hook will pick you up at the airstrip on the outskirts of Sandy Lake in some old beat up vans. You will then proceed on a 15 minute drive to his dock at Sandy Lake. Steve has his own personal plane there but utilizes 2 to 3 Cessna float planes via Sandy Lake Airlines to move Big Hook customers to their various outposts. It only takes about 20 minutes to get to South Lake via float plane from Sandy Lake.

Normally in August we have not had weather issues that have limited flights in and out of Sandy Lake ... but once we did spend the night on the floor of the commissary at Sandy because of storms. We have had occasional late pickups at our cabin at take out time. The fact that you are 180 miles north of Red lake will at times mean you may have travel issues back and  forth between your camp, Sandy Lake and Red Lake.

Hey, I have to go watch the Final Four on TV ...if you need any more info ... please ask.

Wally
Thanks for the info.
DD
The moraine you spoke of is south of Big Hook isn’t it.

Guys, when you take the floatplane from Sandy, you will fly due north and fly right over a high morraine just as DD described as you make your way to Opasquia PP. it is a neat siight as most of the terrain that you will see from Sandy to Opasquia is flat with heavy jack pine forest and scattered small lakes,ponds and marsh.

When flying in the fog, it can be a bit dangerous as the high plateau comes out of nowhere and the elevation difference is quite dramatic.

DD
I think I see symbols on the topo maps where some of them are but the grand daddy as you call it is not marked. 
Looking at google earth east and then north of Sandy lake shows the Severn river crossing the end of the moraine.  I think that water is beyond my skill level.

I talked with Big Hook again this morning. They have 3 canoes at Central Lake Outposts. Two Nova Craft 17 foot Prospector and a 15 foot Nova Craft Scott. These weigh 70 pounds. They rent for $40 per day.

The round trip transportation is about $520. This can be done because the contracted air services are able to fly with full loads. He makes no profit on these flights. That cost is what the services charge.

I again brought up the option of bringing in Pak Canoes. He said if they were bulky it could incur "Cube Space Charges."

To book a trip you can send a $250 deposit for each person to the Big Hook's Milwaukee address. P.O. Box 510465, Milwaukee, WI 53203. Be sure to explain that you are making the deposit for a canoe and your dates. All entries and exits are on Saturdays but you can stay multiple weeks. The balance is paid during trip with cash or travelers checks. Please read all the info on their site for all the details.

Note from Claire on fees:
You will need to purchase Crown Land Camping permits.  Ontario Parks gets a % of the permit revenue so you are still supporting parks even if in a non-operating park.  Crown Land Camping permits can only be purchased in person at a Service Ontario office.  In Red Lake, this office is on the bottom floor of our building.

Craig (Farmer) and I are booking two weeks with one of the 17 foot canoes for July 13-27,2013

Jimbo wrote on Apr 9^th, 2013 at 7:04pm:

Yes, we are going this July 13, 2013. I want to go in and check it out as soon as possible. I have no idea what we are going to find the traveling conditions to be like. I am interested in doing the loop from Central Lake to South Lake to West Lake to East Lake and back to Central Lake.

The easy way would be to go NW from Central Lake to East Lake but I want to attempt the loop first. If we can't make it through we can always backtrack to Central Lake and go to East Lake via a few portages around some rapids. The loop should be about 50 miles and make a great trip for future paddlers. The loop is an old route but we do not know how clogged it may be.

You know there is another 17 foot canoe if you wanted to join the fact-finding mission.

I'm looking forward to a full report upon his return to civilization.

I'll second that...

Scot