25 Important new concerning PCD (Read 7758 times)
glider
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Re: Important new concerning PCD
Reply #20 - May 7th, 2014 at 6:55pm
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I agree with the comments above.  We usually travel in groups of 6 or more so finding areas with multiple suitable sites is key to planning a trip. The PCD has been a valuable resource for doing that - thanks!  I rely on the tent pad #s and comments - and the date they were made - as much as the star ratings.
  
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Rocky
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Re: Important new concerning PCD
Reply #21 - May 11th, 2014 at 1:10pm
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Azalea, thank you very much for maintaining the PCD over the years, it has been a huge help for me.  And thank you for your help with maps, etc.
mncanoeing.com will be a good home for the PCD.  I would like to see the Inukshuk ratings be accessible in some form.  I suggest that the ratings currently available only to Inukshuk members (5-star) be accessible at mncanoeing.com to at least one of the membership levels, if not the basic level, then a more premium level.  Also, if possible, previous PCD Inukshuk persons might be allowed access to the 5-star ratings either at the free level or the basic level.  In order to keep the 5-star ratings semi-private I think it would be ok to restrict the 5-star ratings to new members of mncanoeing.com who have a higher (more expensive) membership level.  If that does not work for people who added 5-star ratings to the PCD, maybe those who object could have their specific ratings deleted?
  
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Joe_Schmeaux
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Re: Important new concerning PCD
Reply #22 - May 11th, 2014 at 2:38pm
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Anyone can save a permanent record of the average ratings for each campsite in pcd by downloading the oziexplorer file. There is one file for inuks and one for non-inuks, and you only get the average rating for each campsite, not the individual ratings or the text comments, but maybe that's good enough.

If you don't want to use Oziexplorer or Memory-Map, the Oziexplorer file data can also be read in in Excel. Go to "Data" - "From Text" - (select the Oziexplorer file) - select "delimited"and check the "comma" box, then import the data into a new worksheet, making sure the data type of column B is "text".

Azalea's help file tells you what each column refers to. The only one that's a bit of a nuisance is the one ending up in "column K" in the Excel sheet. If you want to parse that column into something a bit cleaner, you can create six new columns, with the following formulas:

Column K: Already contains a string like this:    ?:?:Namakan River    :-m---
Columns V through Z should be blank, so enter the following formulas into line 5 and copy them to the other rows in the sheet:
Column V: =TRIM(LEFT(K5,FIND(":",K5,1)-1))
Column W: =MID(K5,LEN(LEFT(K5,FIND(":",K5,1)-1))+2,100)
Column X: =LEFT(W5,FIND(":",W5,1)-1)
Column Y:=MID(W5,LEN(X5)+2,100)
Column Z: =LEFT(Y5,FIND(":",Y5,1)-1)
Column AA: =MID(Y5,LEN(Z5)+2,100)

Columns W and Y can be hidden; Columns V, X, Z and AA contain the average rating, number of tent pads, lake name, and original data source for each site respectively.

I won't promise anything, but this should work with free spreadsheet programs like Open Office if you don't have Excel.
  
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Old Salt
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Re: Important new concerning PCD
Reply #23 - May 11th, 2014 at 6:26pm
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Joe's suggestion is way over my head. If you visit mncanoeing, they are moving toward paid memberships which is fine. I choose to support qj and I cannot afford multiple memberships. So, if the pcd gets moved, I will lose access. How many will that affect? Undecided
  
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Gavia
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Re: Important new concerning PCD
Reply #24 - May 12th, 2014 at 12:18am
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I don't mean to be critical or contentious, but is a few bucks really not affordable?  That's a serious question, no jerking around intended.
  
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db
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Re: Important new concerning PCD
Reply #25 - May 12th, 2014 at 2:31am
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Gavia wrote on May 12th, 2014 at 12:18am:
I don't mean to be critical or contentious, but is a few bucks really not affordable?  That's a serious question, no jerking around intended.

Agreed.

As someone who's accepted donations rather than paid subscriptions for over ten years, are you up to date?

When AZ retired, I offered server space on QJ for the existing PCD and that offer is still good.

"UPDATE - As of May 2014, the PCD has been transferred to MN Canoeing. It is no longer being maintained by Dr. J. Archer Harris. The data was originally obtained from him. Pursuant to the agreement between Dr. Harris and MN Canoeing, the PCD data is free to be used noncommercially."
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4/23/2014 - Went Commercial! - Up until now, the website has been not-for-profit. After a lot of emailing, calling, and coding, I was able to convert the website to commercial status. There were a lot of updates, changes, and additions that went into this process. To see a summary of it, look at this blog post."
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"5/4/2014 - PCD Moved to MN Canoeing - The Quetico Paddler's Campsite Database, the best source of Quetico campsite information for the past decade, has moved to MN Canoeing! Dr. J. Archer Harris asked if I would like to take over the data and management of the project. Thank you to Dr. Harris and the QuietJourney community, which was instrumental in keeping the project going.

FWIW - I don't think I added anything to the PCD besides "this is not a campsite" and it still amazes me that there are awesome campsites that have never been added so I really am fine with whatever the outcome is.

Who knew there were dots when they started anyway?
  
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bstrege
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Re: Important new concerning PCD
Reply #26 - May 12th, 2014 at 8:53am
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I'm the creator of MN Canoeing. I just wanted to explain the move and answer some of the questions that have come up here. I haven't been able to get a hold of AZ since he gave me the data and we made an agreement. Perhaps he will come back and chime in.

The public PCD ratings will remain free. That is part of my agreement with AZ. In any case, I don't believe in charging for access to anything that was contributed by people other than myself (unless that is their wish). What I am charging for is the parts of the website that have been very labor-intensive (hundreds of hours on my part). So, in short, no one is losing access to the PCD.

With AZ's approval, I have been using the "average" PCD ratings for awhile. With moving all of the data to MN Canoeing, I now have all of the comments and individual ratings as well. It is true that I used to remove all of the "not a campsite" locations, but now I put them back on the map, so they can also be updated now.

I tried matching up the usernames in the PCD to the usernames on MN Canoeing. If you are a member and I was able to match it up, you have the ability to add, update, and delete your ratings. If you register and then want to associate your PCD ratings with your username, just send me an email via the website.

Right now, only the public ratings are publicly available. (If I was able to match your username, you also have access to your own Inukshuk ratings, but no one else does.) AZ and I agreed to continue the discussion about the Inukshuk ratings here. I am very grateful for the contributions that the QJ community made to the PCD (I have used it myself extensively the past few years). I would also hate to see the Inukshuk ratings just disappear. I told AZ that I would be more than willing to make a deal with the QJ community.

As I understand it, the original intent was to make sure the people with access to the Inukshuk ratings also were contributors to the Quetico community. If db is willing to work with me on this, I can grant access to the Inukshuk ratings to any Inukshuks on QJ. On the MN Canoeing side, I can either grant access with a premium membership or if you have accumulated so many "points" (earned by rating campsites, posting trip reports, etc.). I would lean towards the "points" solution since I don't want to charge for access to user-contributed data, but I will leave this open for discussion.

I am very grateful for this community's contributions over the years, so I take very seriously your concerns and suggestions.
  
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db
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Re: Important new concerning PCD
Reply #27 - May 13th, 2014 at 3:11am
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azalea
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Re: Important new concerning PCD
Reply #28 - May 19th, 2014 at 3:49pm
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It has been a busy few weeks but I am back.

One of the major considerations for me in moving the data to mncanoeing was my PCD was not just data.  There was a whole programming "engine" behind it.  The way that engine worked was very old-fashioned.  You ever notice how long it took some map pages to load?  Instead of using tools available now, there was code creating a small map file from a very big one so the website could display that small map file.  Because of that design, there was no way to scroll the map. And that is just one example.

I had pondered re-writing the whole thing, but then I became aware of the mncanoeing website.  It has everything in it (and more) that I would have put in a re-write.  It was just plain stupid to re-invent the wheel, if  Ben was willing to continue to give QJ'ers the kind of access we had enjoyed to date.

I encourage you to, try his site if you have not done so already.  It is way better than the PCD.  I think you will all find this is a vast improvement.

This was not a sell out to some money-hungry enterprise.  Ben is a canoeist just like the rest of us. Any proceeds he will get will not come close to paying for all the labor he has put in.  And even then he is donating some of the proceeds to canoeing organizations. So I gave him a big thanks for what he is providing us.
  
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db
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Re: Important new concerning PCD
Reply #29 - May 21st, 2014 at 12:24am
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bstrege wrote on May 12th, 2014 at 8:53am:
If db is willing to work with me on this, I can grant access to the Inukshuk ratings to any Inukshuks on QJ.

The way AZ and I worked out Inuk access was the link from the Inuk forum granted Inuk level access. I can point it wherever but you'd have to ask him how it worked. I guess proof of Inuk status would be a PM from one.

FWIW - I tried a point system in the early days of the PDB. That was a huge mistake. Bogus entries overwhelmed the honest and thoughtful ones. It was a huge disappointment to me.
  
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