25 Changes with Red Lake Outfitters (Read 51785 times)
solotripper
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Re: Changes with Red Lake Outfitters
Reply #10 - Feb 3rd, 2020 at 7:39pm
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Quote:
We can all agree that's bad, right?


  I can BUT as you noted others apparently had no problem with it.

I noticed the same thing about Harlan's choice of where to build a fire.  I wouldn't build a fire there except maybe in the winter. I think a small wood-burning twig stove is the way to go there.

  Both the fishing cleaning scenario and the choice of fire/spots aren't something I would do but I also don't think they warrant the abuse he says he received either.

  I don't agree with the parks telling people to burn their TP in the firepit either. You're supposed to burn your paper product too but how many times have you've seen a firepit with half-burned items when you pick a campsite.  Shocked Angry

  I don't plan on going back into the woods the required distance, digging a cat hole and then wandering back TP in hand. I use bio-degradable TP.

I'll bury it in the cat hole, make it look like I was never there and mark the spot with a dead stick sticking up to warn others who might stumble on my spot.

  I don't think they thought that idea through very well.

  
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Jimbo
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Re: Changes with Red Lake Outfitters
Reply #11 - Feb 3rd, 2020 at 7:39pm
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db,

It probably wouldn't have been my choice as a place for a fire, either.  OR, if it was, I would likely have looked around for a large flat rock (or three) to build it on.

On the other hand, burning a fire in an established fire spot (he's used that very spot many times in his previous videos) seems such a small matter in the natural course of events in the boreal forest. We all know that a huge hunk of the WCPP ecosystem has burned up just in the past few years... most of it due to lightning strikes.  I certainly do not advocate "helping that process along" with poor woodcraft and forest stewardship but, at the very beginning of his video, Harlan does emphasize "looking around you" before you build a fire.

I DO agree with your observation re: YouTube.  Every time you express yourself to a wide audience, you are taking a risk.  Not everyone will know the relevant history.  Not everyone will have looked at Harlan's past videos and understand his experience on that very spot. He opens himself up to fair criticism.  It's similar, in a way, to what Stu Osthoff did to himself a year or so back when he put a picture of a paddler NOT wearing a life vest on the front cover of the BWJ.  Holy mackerel, he certainly took crap from holier-than-thou sorts for that oversight!  The reality?  The guy in that BWJ pic was truly an Olympic-caliber swimmer and was paddling in very shallow water.  In similar fashion, I trust Harlan had his situation well under control.

Nevertheless, anytime you venture into the public arena, you are heavily pressured into "political correctness" and you become fair game for critics and/or someone trying to wave their favorite banner.  Stu will likely never publish such a photo, again, despite the unfortunate reality that a LOT of paddlers go around that way (25 years ago I was one of them). Likewise, I'll bet Harlan wishes he had built his fire somewhere else, despite the precautions he was taking.  Both he & Stu opened themselves to criticism, regardless of possibly-vindicating "back stories", and regardless of the realities they were depicting.

I ask: who among us has never paddled without a life preserver?  Who among us has never built a fire that failed to measure up to forest Ranger specs?  In neither case do I believe poor practices were being consciously promoted/advocated.  Yet, when you put a video on YouTube or publish a magazine, you get fried the first time you fail to be PC.  You become a "poor custodian of public trust."

A lot of the ruckus came about due to the comments of a rival outfitter in the Red Lake area.  I say, "let the Red Lake outfitter among us who is without sin cast the first stone." With Harlan out of the picture now,  this former rival may well inherit similar scrutiny, should he ever grow his business to a size where it merits some attention... and that's not going to happen any time soon.

Re: cleaning fish guts on campfire logs, well, I don't know anyone who would argue that's a good thing.  I don't recall that I've ever seen that done in any of Harlan's videos.  Then, again, there are so FEW people using campsites in WCPP, I doubt it would matter much if folks did clean fish on campfire logs.  Heck, I've seen more than one campsite in that park with small TREES growing up through the fire rings!

Later,

Jimbo   Cool   

  
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Marten
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Re: Changes with Red Lake Outfitters
Reply #12 - Feb 4th, 2020 at 2:21am
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This Red Lake thing is such a mess and down here we have no way of keeping up. As for Albert and Kelly at Goldseekers, they  were once the go-to outfitter in Red Lake. When Albert started working the mine he started dropping the ball when it came to his outfitting business. Now that his children are older they are back in the outfitting business and will probably do what he used to be known for, good dealings with paddlers.

It was like Albert handed Harlan the customers on a platter, now Harlan has handed them back. Chukuni only bought the store, not Red Lake Outfitting. He is going to do some outfitting but wants to work into it.

Harlan had a knack for combing the rule book for gray areas and pursuing them if it worked for his business. He fought aggressively on a national level in an attempt to be able to access his Olive Lake cabin with a snowmobile. It is interesting that snowmobiling is not allowed in WCPP except with some exceptions but that was a big thing in the haters video. Harlan would do a lot of things in his videos to upset some people. Where he built his fires was no accident and upset some people as he was promoting something unsafe but not against park rules. Claire has always been a protector of WCPP and this caused a lot of friction with Harlan as he pushed what he could legally do because there was not a specific rule against it.

Harlan was getting out before he made the ranting videos so I wish that he had just packed up and not left such an uproar in Red Lake.
  
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HighnDry
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Re: Changes with Red Lake Outfitters
Reply #13 - Feb 4th, 2020 at 3:41am
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Jimbo, You captured my sentiments fairly well. I dont' know what happened but I was going to ask everyone at our QJ Copia gathering. Now at least there's some clarity to the situation, as you say, from Harlan's perspective. Too bad it didn't work out long term. He was a successful promoter for the park.

DB, I'm with you on those points but I figure I'm still too much of a greenhorn to be an authority on anything...at leas that's what my kids tell me  Grin Grin

P.S. Hope to see you at Copia
  
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Jimbo
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Re: Changes with Red Lake Outfitters
Reply #14 - Feb 4th, 2020 at 5:01am
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Well, I'll defer to Marten re: the particulars of what was going on up there.  He knows the players & the situation much better than I do.  As he says, it has been a real "mess." 

Too bad it didn't work out.  Harlan was moving kind of fast for that small town and I guess he didn't bring enough of the locals along for his ride.  A town like that moves at its own speed... and, sometimes, that may amount to not moving at all.  Hey, it's their prerogative, right?

I believe WCPP has a pretty good custodian in Claire.  I only met her a couple times and she came across as both personable & sharp.  I think the park can benefit from both custodians AND promoters.  Maybe they'll be able to work together a little better in the future.

I'd very much like to head back to WCPP, again, but I don't see it happening any time soon.  Too much charcoal lying around for my taste.

Marten, thanks for your insights!

Jimbo   Cool
  
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BillConner
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Re: Changes with Red Lake Outfitters
Reply #15 - Feb 4th, 2020 at 11:20am
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My favorite part of this, Jimbo's line: "It explains a lot... at least from his point of view.". Still smiling from that one.
  
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JillPine
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Re: Changes with Red Lake Outfitters
Reply #16 - Feb 5th, 2020 at 12:24pm
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Jimbo wrote on Feb 4th, 2020 at 5:01am:
Too much charcoal lying around for my taste.

Marten, thanks for your insights!

Jimbo   Cool


Nature's allegory
  
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TomT
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Re: Changes with Red Lake Outfitters
Reply #17 - Feb 5th, 2020 at 1:58pm
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Jimbo wrote on Feb 3rd, 2020 at 3:14pm:
I think it is fair to say Harlan was a "change agent" (probably a fairly aggressive one) and, well, we all know that most folks don't do so well with change.


You nailed it right here Jimbo.  It's small minded people who were jealous of Harlan or looked at him as a disruption to their "control" over the area.  They probably saw him as an intruder and representing wholesale change to the area.

  
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mpeebles
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Re: Changes with Red Lake Outfitters
Reply #18 - Feb 5th, 2020 at 2:29pm
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I wasn't going to chime in this conversation as it probably would serve no purpose.  However, wondering if anyone other than me have seen the wide trails cut through some of the portages in the park to accommodate a certain person's snowmobiles?  If this would happen in Q or BWCA there would be hell to pay.   I see this whole thing as the Ontario Parks folks wanting to manage their park rather than a commercial interest.

Safe travels.........
  
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solotripper
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Re: Changes with Red Lake Outfitters
Reply #19 - Feb 5th, 2020 at 3:10pm
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TomT wrote on Feb 5th, 2020 at 1:58pm:
Jimbo wrote on Feb 3rd, 2020 at 3:14pm:
I think it is fair to say Harlan was a "change agent" (probably a fairly aggressive one) and, well, we all know that most folks don't do so well with change.


You nailed it right here Jimbo.  It's small minded people who were jealous of Harlan or looked at him as a disruption to their "control" over the area.  They probably saw him as an intruder and representing wholesale change to the area.



  I wouldn't assume that Harlan's enemies were ALL small-minded people. Harlan came from southern Ontario which is very Liberal and a very hustling/bustling place. Not knocking that, just saying that how it is.

He came for a trip, fell in love with the area and decided he wanted to make a life for himself up there. Nothing the matter with that either.

  The problem is many people LIKE that small town, slow pace lifestyle. The ones that don't move away after HS, the rest stay.

  Harlan came it with his hard-charging ways that being from where he came from is the norm for people starting their own business.

  To the locals that is EVERYTHING, they don't like about "city" life. Neither side is 100% right or wrong for that matter.

  I have sister and brother-in-law that lived in CA for most of their married lives. When he retired they moved to Prescott AZ because CA was too expensive to continue to live the lifestyle they were accustomed too.

They built a very nice home in a subdivision that the minimum lot size is 2 acres and the zoning is such people can have horses/ goats/llamas/chickens but not BREED them for profit.

They are Rottie lovers and have 2 of them at all times. They fenced in their 2 acres and all was well at first. Then THEIR CA very Progressive values kicked in and the trouble started.

They went to a neighborhood association meeting and complained that the smell from the animals was so bad they couldn't enjoy time outdoors on the patio!

They didn't like that the roads were not paved but hard-packed gravel with a coating to keep the dust down. More horse friendly. There is also a neighborhood GUN RANGE at one end that backs up to state land.

It gets minimal use but it does get used.
Well, that went over like a lead balloon. People told them, you left CA because it became unaffordable to you and now you want to BRING that mentality here!

So now they don't talk to any of their neighbors and of course, they think THEY'RE the ones being treated unfairly.

It appears Harlan isn't the innocent he made himself out to be in that video? That doesn't excuse people vandalizing his property or running him off the road but then that's HIS side of the story too.  Undecided
  
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