Wow, nunbet10 get a license, those big bears you talk about  outweight the Penn State record by at least 67lbs( State record is 733). Must be something in the water out there.

cedarboy

those are some mighty big black bears your describing !!
i'm sure less and less hunters apply for bear permits just  as in my state MI every generation is losing more and more hunters and fishermen??
i can relate to not finding the right combo of tree's but i wouldn't recomend hiding your food pack under a canoe ??
IF, you can't hang i would do what the "hiders" do, take pack away from camp and stash in woods. you could still do the pot and pan alarm thing or go to my "personal alarm" but i think you would be much better served keeping the canoe out of harm's way
it's BAD enough if a bear get's your food, but if he rips into your canoe to do it, well then your really screwed !!
if you go to link Azlea posted and study it out, you'll see that with using 2 top ropes, coming from opposite directions and using the pulley system closer to one tree or the  other, you SHOULD have better luck finding suitable tree's??
i bet when the word get's out about those big blacks bears, Pennsylvania will be a prime spot for the black bear hunter's??
from what i've read, you need to go to BC or some place farther north to get into bears that size??

I've had very little success in hanging my packs.  I never seem to get the right combination of trees to make it work.  Alas . . .    I have usually taken my food pack and put it under my canoe, placing the cleaned cookpots and dishes on the bottom of the canoe to "dry" overnight.  Had the canoe tipped once and the racket of the clanging dishes spooked Mr. Bruin and woke me up, enough to make enough noise to shoo him off.  But a persnickety or tenacious bear would probably get my food anyway, under a canoe or in a tree.  I'm intrigued by the personal alarm method and might consider adding that to the "canoe method" arsenal.

As for the pleasantness of bears north or south, I live my not BW/Q life in Pennsylvania where bears are close to outnumbering humans these days.  A black bear in the 600-900 pound range is not unheard of.  In fact, I have seen multiple 600+ bears in the last few weeks on the mosey for fattening.  Those were sows.  I saw an 800+ garbage bear last Saturday.  Lying on his side and scratching on a tree next to a busy highway, he was at least 6 1/2 feet tall.  Lots of Jersey and NYC lookey-loos had gotten out of their cars for a gander.  Not smart with a garbage-fed, grizzly-sized black bear who doesn't give a rip about humans or their cars.

Anwyay, as for dogs and bears.  My experience has been:  keep your dog and bears far apart.  If my dog is barking and outside at night around here, the dog comes in and gets the muzzle.  I know of more than one person who's dog's barking has pissed the bear off and they wound up with a dead or severly-wounded pup.  If your dog's not leashed, they often will get bold (read: Stupid Dog Syndrome) and chase them only to wind up as I mentioned before.

Dogs might be a good alarm in the BW/Q or north, but they are more of a hazard than a help IMO; even though I love to have them with me, I choose a kennel or friend to pet them while I'm away.

db wrote on Aug 12^th, 2006 at 8:35am:


I agree that an educational DVD should also be offered on the web, but I do have some reservations about how effective that would truly be.  If it was on a site like this, then I would assume it would mostly be preaching to the choir.  But if it was on the OntarioParks site, and a required watch before you got your reservation permit, then that would be a step or two better.  Of course, OntarioParks doesn't yet offer QP backcountry permits online so this wouldn't work now.

In a perfect world I would see a process where backcountry QP permits are purchased online.  But prior to getting your permit number and printable confirmation you must go through an online educational sequence (video, slideshow, etc.) followed by a quiz.  A similar process would occur for those users who use guides, outfitters, or camps.  The mailing brochure would be simplified and made more attractive so children and others are tempted to read it.  And the kiosk system at the entry points would be improved upon in the same way in order to drive use.  Furthermore, outreach should be done with large user groups (scouts, other camps) and some sort of a "certification" program (with benefits, that can be revoked) for those bigger organizations should be instituted.  I'm coming around to thinking that a video is just one prong in a multi-toothed attack.

Thanks, there were other intersting things there too. (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links).

lotalota -  what do you think about your DVD idea being web accessible as well? Perhaps they could cover a number of topics individually to reduce download times? I just feel that right before beginning a trip is the absolute worst time to attempt to educate. During the planning stages would be much better IMHO. If all your food is in a garbage bag inside a Duluth... - new thought - maybe the Friends should sell bear proof barrels and trowels. The park already gives out HUGE bright yellow garbage bags and has for years.

PM - I never have taken apart my hanging rope configuration. (+ST) I start wrapping it up in the pack down position just 'cause it's faster to (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links).

I did a bit of googling to see what the various state, provincial, and federal agencies had to say about bear and dog encounters.

Manitoba says this:  "Dogs can serve as an early-warning system for the presence of bears but should be kept on a leash at all times. If an unrestrained dog confronts a bear, the bear may follow the dog back to its owner."

Ontario this:  "It is important to keep dogs away from a bear. While a well-trained dog may deter a bear, a poorly trained one may only excite it resulting in the bear following the dog back to its owner."

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links) is fairly interesting.  Don't bother if you're on dial-up, however.  It doesn't say anything about what to do with your dog, but I think they cover that elsewhere.

read account of paddler w/dog and stalking bear on myccr last month. sounded like the bear was after the dog but who knows for sure.

solotripper wrote on Aug 11^th, 2006 at 6:58pm:


He said he was pretty darn scared, and that he would never do that again.  BTW, he said he saw the Bear on Kawnipi and that he thought it was over 400 pounds.

your points are well taken and i've read articles talking about people letting dogs"chase" after black bears only to have dog come back into camp with bear in hot pursuit??
i don't know if i would NOT bring a dog, but i wouldn't let it roam free or "set" it at bear to close to camp??
it's hard to imagine that in Q/BW, or the bush that a healthy bear would be driven to go after a full size barking dog??
i guess only bear knows for sure but i'm wondering if there is perhaps another explanation??
could it be that the bears are young male's and the see the dogs barking as a challenge to there territory??
those are the kinds of bears i carry my bear spray for, there not looking for a scavenged meal, there looking for fresh meat, as in YOU!!
while they may be few and far between, that's not much comfort if your the unlucky soul that encounters one .
THERE not going to be deterred by throwing rocks or paddle upside there head IMO!
Like the discussion of hanging or hiding, there are a multiple of opinions on this subject!!
I wonder what the guy in canoe with dog would say now that his "deterent" turned out to be a "ATTRACTION" ??

Quote:


I'm not so sure about dogs and bears.  About a week ago I met a guy paddling down McEwen creek that had just recently paddled up to a large bear he saw on the shore.  He had a medium sized dog who was yipping at it and  he told me the bear jumped into the water and started swimming toward him.  As in the bear wanted to eat the dog.

I have a good friend I hunt with in The Pas, MB who camps in the bush with his hunting dog (labrador).  On two separate nights the bear jumped on his camper and tried to get in although the dog was barking and growing.  Then the bear tried to ambush the dog in the early morning and nearly caught it.  It was a black bear, just like the kind we have down here.

This tells me that a hungry bear will want to eat a dog.  Maybe the BW/Q bears are docile and not terribly dog-hungry.  But if it was me I wouldn't assume that a dog would scare away a bear, but rather be an enticement to it.