Solotrip wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2012 at 4:41pm:

Its almost like there is a bureaucracy involved.  No ... wait ... 

dd

Doc,

I agree there needs to be a clear statement on this.  I will talk to a Conservation Officer and Ontario Parks on Monday and get clarification....that said, the way I posted it originally is how I`ve been instructed to proceed by the MNR. 

In the case of cabins at Big Hook, those cabins fall under their LUP (land use permit), so no permit of any kind is needed (same as if you spent a night at an outpost in WCPP no permit would be needed for that night).  That said, paddlers would not be staying on the small piece of land that Big Hook uses for their LUP, rather they would be traveling through the land so LUP jurisdiction does not apply...Crown Land Camping regulation apply...confused yet?

I camped on crown land for several years several years ago.  Our outfitter said that if we rented tents from him we would not need to pay a fee to camp on crown land.  He told us what the fee was and gave us a choice.  His tents were cheaper. We were never questioned I thought we were covered.  We were in an area where there were many fishermen so I would expect to see some policing going on in the area.

Solotrip wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2012 at 12:32pm:

Ok.  So at least I found the relevant part of the code (see my post above).  But you are saying that 18.1 (a) AND (b) are the stipulation, where I read this as 18.1 (a) OR (b). 

Thats OK, but if that is what Ontario Parks mean, they need to re-write that section.  The way the current code is written "OR" is the way 99% of the population would interpret this.  When each subsection ends with a semicolon and "or" appears between subsection (d) and (e), I'm pretty sure that most would deduce the interpretation as being (a) or (b) or (c) or (d) or (e).

When I read this originally (i.e., subsections (a) and (b)), what came to mind is someone renting one of the Opasquia fishing cabins operated by Big Hook Outfitters.  To me, it wouldn't make very much sense to have a camping permit AND rent a cabin.

But, then, it wouldn't be the first time I went off half-cocked.  How much to rent a tarp?   Better yet, based on what I read about campsite in Opasquia ... do you rent hammocks?   

dd

FYI, in order for a non-resident to camp in a non operating Provincial Park in the province of Ontario, the camper (or party) must obtain a crown land camping permit.  In order for a non-resident to qualify for a crown land camping permit, the camper (or party) must be using a "camping unit" rented from a person who carries on business in Ontario.....my experience has led me to believe this means a tent or some other form of accommodation (perhaps a tarp).  It does not mean a cooking kit, pack, or barrel 

So, in addition to the crown land camping permit fee, a non-resident would have to also consider the cost of renting a tent or tarp or other qualifying piece of gear.  It's important to note as a 2 week + rental of a tent or tarp could drive up the cost considerably. 

The same goes for crown land camping around the Red Lake area, although most of that crown land is green zone so non-residents are prohibited from camping at all (Onnie Lake for example).

You can refer to this document for specifics.  See section 18

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DD, I'm was curious about where the non-operating parks fall as far as permit fees. I was asking about the Steel River once with a park permitting person at the time, it's changed since then. His take was that the Crown Land permit was only for areas outside Ontario Parks. The non-operating parks didn't have any fees, since there weren't any fees quoted on their list.

I never tested that catch 22, and we did get crown land permit for the Steel. My ex-tripping "friends" were whining about paying any fees. So that's why I was asking.

I think your link clears it up. Sounds like a crown land permit would do it.

BillConner wrote on Sep 21^st, 2012 at 9:19pm:

Look like it is mostly covered by a (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links), which I read as a crown land camping permit (~$10 per person per night).

But I think that getting this directly from an Ontario Parks authority (e.g., Claire Que @ WCPP would likely know, since Opasquia is now under the administrative jurisdiction of the WCPP) is advisable.

dd

Is the permit like crownland permit or different procedure?

Marten wrote on Sep 21^st, 2012 at 12:17pm:

Is the figure 8 the one with about 6 miles of common route near the middle?  If so, I spotted that one as well.  (Even that could be cut down to under 2 miles by using one of the arms of East Lake and adding a longer portage/bushwhack.)  From the best I can tell, with one exception the portages are also relatively short, with only a few that reach the 80 rod class.  Maybe a bit more lining of the canoe than I'm used to doing, but none-the-less something that looks doable.

Tick, Tick, Tick.  I hear my biological clock running down also!

dd

I may have it wrong but using topos and Google Satellite images I came up with a nice figure 8 with a lot of side routes to paddle. As the man told me that is trying to get me to share cost with him" We are not going to be able to do this for too many more years."