10 Extending Front Flotation Chamber (Read 7967 times)
The Gimp of 01
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Extending Front Flotation Chamber
Apr 15th, 2009 at 10:58am
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Looking for ideas on how to extend the front flotation chamber on our SR Q 18.5 so my bow paddler has something solid to brace his feet against. The ideal solution would have the following characteristics:


1.      Be lightweight to minimize the amount of counterbalancing needed for portaging.
2.      Be solid enough to stand on.
3.      Be non absorbent
4.      Be removable to accommodate a taller paddler when needed.
5.      Be adjustable to accommodate bow paddlers of different heights.


Yes, a lot of desired properties. If I had to give some of them up, it would be items 4 & 5. Any ideas would be appreciated.
  
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Mad_Mat
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Re: Extending Front Flotation Chamber
Reply #1 - Apr 15th, 2009 at 12:24pm
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are you sure you don't want the winning lotto numbers too?

1 - look into installing an adjustable foot brace ala Wenonah

2 - just go to Wal-mart and buy some kind of small step stool that will fit, glue some non-skid rubber or something to it so it won't skid around, and just hand carry it on portages - or use a six pack cooler to take up the space

3 - glue blocks of wood to the bottom of your bow paddlers boots, so he can reach to the front tank - that will give you some added floatation

I vote for option 1
  
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The Gimp of 01
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Re: Extending Front Flotation Chamber
Reply #2 - Apr 15th, 2009 at 2:38pm
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Sure; I'll take those winning numbers!

Call it a "DUH" moment; for some reason I never thought of checking with canoe builders for such an item. I looked at the SR site, and saw it is avaiable as an option at the time of manufacture, but not listed as an add on item. I'm waiting on a response from them.
  
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screamingwindigo
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Re: Extending Front Flotation Chamber
Reply #3 - Apr 15th, 2009 at 2:40pm
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Honestly I wouldn't even mess with your flotation chamber. I would instead consider putting in an adjustable bow seat. That way your front paddler always has the leg room He/she wants and to top it off you can use the seat to adjust boat trim for varying paddler weights and varying wind conditions.

I know Wenonah has them available.
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There's also some different styles out there.
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This is the only DIY kit I found after a couple of searches.
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Otherwise I know there is pretty detailed instructions on how to build them from scratch in theses two books.
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Good luck
SW
  
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marlin55388
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Re: Extending Front Flotation Chamber
Reply #4 - Apr 15th, 2009 at 3:29pm
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Dont mess with the tank...it will be a pain in your butt-stick to the seat gig if you have the heart to drill the holes and fill the olde ones...a slider will allow you more flexibility to trim the boat too.
  
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Mister_Bubble
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Re: Extending Front Flotation Chamber
Reply #5 - Apr 15th, 2009 at 3:49pm
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How much of a filler do you need? 3" or 1 foot?

How about a block of ethafoam?  NRS (and others) sell blocks of ethafoam - you could probably use the mushroom head velcro-type stuff to hold it in place when needed.
  
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Jim J Solo
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Re: Extending Front Flotation Chamber
Reply #6 - Apr 15th, 2009 at 8:17pm
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Mister_Bubble wrote on Apr 15th, 2009 at 3:49pm:
How much of a filler do you need? 3" or 1 foot?

How about a block of ethafoam?  NRS (and others) sell blocks of ethafoam - you could probably use the mushroom head velcro-type stuff to hold it in place when needed.


Ditto; Foam Block, That's what racers do in a pinch.

I was also thinking you might get a pelican box for your camera gear. They're stiff enough to be a foot brace up against the float box. If that's not enough put a drybag or small pack behind it too.

But if you feel the need to get the tools out do the sliding seat, don't drill and mount a foot brace. Foot braces are over rated for tripping IMHO. Got one in my solo but not in the stern of my tandem.
  
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db
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Re: Extending Front Flotation Chamber
Reply #7 - Apr 16th, 2009 at 6:00am
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I don't know, a sliding seat is for trim - not legroom right? When I solo my tandem I don't have a foot brace so I end up using my peli case shoved against a pack. It's sort of okay and I can slide it around depending on which foot I use. A bow is probably a weird shape though and so the case could possibly shift unexpectedly. I'd vote daypack w/ nothing crushable inside.

Or, what about cutting some foam (pink stuff) glued together and shaped to fit? Then cover that with glass and epoxy. Even tape/velcrow it in if you wanted. Not sure how that could be made to be adjustable but I'm sure you could figure something out. The biggest problem I see is the shape of the bow. Forward or back a few inches and the width would change quite a bit too.
  
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arkansasman
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Re: Extending Front Flotation Chamber
Reply #8 - Apr 16th, 2009 at 12:26pm
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I have the sliding bow seat in mine and it helps with the problem, mainly because the smaller person will normally slide forward to adjust the trim and therefore be closer to the floatation chamber.  One thing to look for is the fact that if they put their feet against the chamber and push very much sometimes if there is a weaker spot in the chamber edge where it is sealed... it will come loose!  That happened in mine and I had to re-epoxy it to seal it.  The best thing to do I think would be to use the foam or Styrofoam blocks cut to fit and put it with velcro tabs for easy staying and removal.

Bruce
  
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The Gimp of 01
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Re: Extending Front Flotation Chamber
Reply #9 - Apr 16th, 2009 at 2:07pm
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Bruce, if memory serves me corectly, you also have the SR Q18.5, don't you? If so, was the slider seat in it when you got it, or did you retrofit it?
  
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arkansasman
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Re: Extending Front Flotation Chamber
Reply #10 - Apr 16th, 2009 at 5:05pm
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Gimp,
The slider was in it when I bought it, and it makes a difference in a lot of ways.  I don't know if SR sells them or not, but you could make one rather easily I would think using the existing seat brace, aluminum tubing and aluminum Angle stock and a good rivet gun!

Bruce
  
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arkansasman
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Re: Extending Front Flotation Chamber
Reply #11 - Apr 16th, 2009 at 6:01pm
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Gimp,
Let me know if you want me to take some pictures of my sliding seat and take the deminsions for you and put them on here.

Bruce
  
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marlin55388
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Re: Extending Front Flotation Chamber
Reply #12 - Apr 18th, 2009 at 3:28am
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The black foam was used years ago in Bells, b4 the modern vaccuum bag tanks....we had patterns and used a japanese pull saw for the rough cut and then shapped in the belt sander and glued in with contact cement-the creekrunner is 16 years old, totally abused, and I have only re-cement once....didn't really need too but I wanted to use up the little bit I had left. The souris is decent sized up front...for me anyway....what about knee pads for bucking those head winds...or could you cut wedges of black foam.. glue them in and cover with knee pads.....just and idea.
  
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arkansasman
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Re: Extending Front Flotation Chamber
Reply #13 - Apr 20th, 2009 at 11:58pm
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Gimp,
I could not load the pictures here as my camera takes too big of pictures and I did not have time to resize!

And here are the specific for the seat:

The three Aluminum tubes are 30 inches long and about 1/16th (.0625)inches thick.

The four Aluminum angle brackets are 5.75 inches long and held in place with 3 rivets through the hull.  They are spaced 35 inches apart (outside end to outside end)  the back bracket is even with the bow thwart 72 inches from the end of the canoe.  The angle stock is about 1/8th (.125) of an inch thick.

The tubes and brackets are held together by single bolts are you can see.

The under seat tube is 1.25 inches in diameter and about 1/16th thick, it is the length of seat, it is spot welded to a piece of angle stock that is about 1/16th of inch thick that is screwed into the seat with two screws.
You might be able to use something different for the sliding part, like the brackets that are used to hold wiring conduit.

here is a link to an online aluminum source:

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If you need anything else leet me know.

Bruce
  
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The Gimp of 01
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Re: Extending Front Flotation Chamber
Reply #14 - Apr 21st, 2009 at 10:21am
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Thanks for the help Bruce. This should help a lot. Looks like it would not be too expensive to fabricate. I had thought of contacting SR to see if I could just buy it as a kit, but they have never responded to the e mail I sent them last Wednesday. Not a stellar example of customer service, but I think I’ll try again; if the price is right I wouldn’t mess around piecing it together. Of course it is all contingent on them actually acknowledging I asked them something.

Let me just take a wild guess; you work with metals at a fairly high level of precision? No too often I see someone describe a dimension in both fractional and 4 place decimal formats. Kind of a giveaway there.
  
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arkansasman
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Re: Extending Front Flotation Chamber
Reply #15 - Apr 21st, 2009 at 5:52pm
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Actually, I do not work with metals, I am a high school assistant principal, I just know that when working with materials like aluminum tubing it is best to have the correct or as close as possible measurements, and some people prefer fractions, and others decimals, and it was no problem to put both.   

I don't think you would have problems putting in the slider at all...  I think the biggest problem would be how to fit the slider tubes on the seat, but again I think you could use the conduit holders to keep it in place.    

I put a removeable 3rd seat  that I built in mine so I could paddle it solo, (when there was no wind of course) I have since bought a Wilderness solo and don't paddle th SR 18.5 solo any more.   I also built a seat back that slides onto the bottom of the seat and does a good job of giving you support.   Here's a link to a picture of it on my solo...

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Bruce
  
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Jim J Solo
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Re: Extending Front Flotation Chamber
Reply #16 - Apr 21st, 2009 at 9:08pm
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Working with aluminum tube you need to think about "annealing". I think that's the right word?
If you ever tried to flatten an end of a tube and it split. It's because it was heated then cooled quick to make it stiff. Something you would want in a thwart but not in a tube for a slider seat. For that you'll want to heat the tubes and let them cool slowly. That makes it slightly springy and less likely to crack over time.

The thwart tubes can be stiffened again after flattening the ends by heating again and cooling fast in water.
  
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Woodsy
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Re: Extending Front Flotation Chamber
Reply #17 - Apr 22nd, 2009 at 4:16am
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My Wenonah Spirit (royalex) has no chamber, but has a bow slider. For years my wife asked  for some type of foot brace in the bow. I finally made one out of 3/8 plywood.  I cut it to the shape of the hull. It tucks up under the gunnels and braces against the grab handle then runs down to the floor at a 45 degree angle. A bungie cord attaches it to a cord run through the grab loop holes. The bungee allows it to hinge up and down and there is room to slide a dry bag into that space. I stuck 2 traction strips to it. I then made three legs to attach to the bottom so it doubles as a camp table. I am now back in good graces.
  
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db
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Re: Extending Front Flotation Chamber
Reply #18 - Apr 22nd, 2009 at 5:01am
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Woodsy - interesting, we NEED a picture.

Jim J Solo - I thought quenching only hardened ferrous metals. Huh. Learned something new ... thanks.
  
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Woodsy
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Re: Extending Front Flotation Chamber
Reply #19 - Apr 22nd, 2009 at 12:02pm
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I guess my description is a little hard to picture. Wife took the camera to
Colorado, I'll post a picture when she gets back.
  
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Jim J Solo
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Re: Extending Front Flotation Chamber
Reply #20 - Apr 23rd, 2009 at 12:31am
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Tempering, that's the hardening term. duh

db, I've never felt the need to temper aluminum, or done it. But that technique was "explained" to me while the annealing was "demonstrated". I remember the two applications explained for different uses in building a canoe using aluminum tubes.
I've used annealing several times since so I could flatten a tube to replace a thward and not have it split. Such as shortening a thwart to move it back to make the gear area bigger in front of the stern position.
  
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