Here is a complaint I filed with the forest service and their utter dropping of the ball reaction and followup.



Dear Sir or Ma'am,
   
   On 5-20-09 I filed a complaint at the Kawishiwi Ranger Office in Ely.  I was camped in the northern portion of the Kawishiwi Triangle and for 4 days was subject to listening to automatic and semi automatic gunfire (about 300 rounds over the course of 3-4 days) from across the bay. From the night of the 19th, I also had photos of an absolutely reckless campfire about 10 feet tall, and from across the bay, could be seen illuminating the trees around their camp making it look like a movie set.  I thought they were going to start the woods on fire and was happy to be upwind of them.  As we were paddling back to the lake one entry on the 20th, I could hear the gunfire behind us, as they had not broken camp.  As soon as I got back to the Lake one outfitter I phoned it in, and told Becca that I would be stopping in as well.  Becca seemed very concerned and said that they had a similar report earlier in the week from about the exact same campsite I was referring to.  (A female camper exited on the 18th and reported the shooting, but no one showed up to investigate.)  I stopped in to the station about an hour later and spoke to them in person and showed them the photo of the crazy camp fire from the O.K. Coral and they were amazed.  They contacted Mr Johnson from the Law Enforecement division and he requested I stay there to speak with him.  I went and got lunch and met him back there at about 2 PM.  He gathered most;ly the same information and seemed skeptical that I actually heard an Automatic weapon.  I explained that I work next to the shooting range at work and that it was definately an automatic weapon, as well as 2 or 3 other semi auto, different caliber weapons.  We discussed the possibility of firecrackers, which are illegal and a fire hazard as well.  He said he was going to check into it and that his partner had received a very similar report two full days earlier. 

   To tell you the truth, it didn't seem like he wanted to do much about it or invest the resources required to go and show up at the campsite.  They could have reached the campsite by canoe in about 3 or 4 hours once they had a canoe loaded to go, or they could have borrowed one from an outfitter I am sure.  Here are my concerns:

1.) Even if skeptical, why was the first report of automatic gunfire on Monday not followed up on? Better safe than sorry. A little extra ranger presence would be good anyway.

2.) After my phone in report, why was something not mobilized for that afternoon being that I called it in around 12:30?

3.) Here it is a week later and I have heard nothing after I was told I would be contacted after the follow up investigation.  Did anything get done? 

  I guess I would just like to know if the Forest Service for the Boundary Waters is really there for protection of campers, or just for the checking of permits, cans, and bottles?  If that is the case, then I would be more than happy to take my tourism dollars somewheres else.  I love the Boundary Waters and rave about it to everyone I know but this type of response is completely not what I expected. 

Thanks,
Bud
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Mr. Hicks,
Sorry you had a bad experience in the BWCAW.  Just to give you some background.  We only have one Law Enforcement Officer per district and currently the position at Ely is vacant.  Therefore, the Officer (Sheffer not Johnson) that responded to Ely to talk with you, had to respond from Cook.  He was under the impression from you that the individuals were probably not in the site or would not be by the time he got there.  He did try to get a flight into the area to see if the individuals were still there, but the weather was not acceptable for flying into that area.   

We do take these reports seriously and try to make contact with possible violators when ever possible.  However, with limited resources we do the best we can.

Pete   




Peter L. Roehrs
Patrol Captain NWest Zone R9
8901 Grand Ave Place
Duluth,MN 55808
Office: (218)626-4309
Cell: (414)232-4713
Fax: (218)626-4394
"The answer to every unasked question, is no"
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Pete,

   Thank you for a prompt response to my email.  I am sure that is exactly what Officer Johnson or Sheffer told you, however, there is absolutely no way that he could have gotten the impression you describe from my report to him.  They were firing at that site as I was exiting, as was explained to him.  There was absolutely enough time to show up to that site by canoe if necessary.  The first report of the incident was not followed up on.  I find it hard to believe that any positive results will result in a case not followed up on.  I realize manpower crunches in law enforcement can be a problem, it is the world we live in.  Who was the officer that took the complaint on Monday, possibly Sheffer?  I am pretty sure it was officer Johnson I spoke with. Either way, I really feel that the Forest Service did not do all that it could have. I believe that Monday's complaint should have been followed up on and I believe that my own complaint should have been followed up on.  Hiding behind a desk saying to your self "Gee, we are probably not gonna catch them" is not the way I would expect the Forest Service to prevent 1.)Fires 2.)repeat Basswood incidents and 3.)someone getting hurt by a stray bullet being fired in a reckless manner.  But thank you for your time following up on the matter.  I realize you are in Duluth and had no knowledge of the matter or anything to do with the ridiculous response.  Hopefully this can be a learning experience for us all. 

Knowing this may be a touchy subject after the Basswood escapades (what, two(?) years ago now)---

I'm not up on MN or BW specific gun rules but as I understand it, discharging firearms is perfectly legal in the BW with certain distance and common sense restrictions. Is there a campfire size limit anyone knows of?

I agree people build scary large fires far too often and hearing lots o' gunfire wouldn't thrill me either so I don't blame you one bit for being POed about it but are either of these two things actually illegal? I'm wondering what you wanted/expected the Forest Service to do?

You could have paddled over the next morning and asked what dumb thing happened that made their fire so big last night... Oh and BTW...

From the view of my comfy chair they needed a talking to for sure. Maybe they just had no clue in which case you could have enlightened them a lot easier yourself.

That wilderness idea cuts both ways sometimes don't it?

It could be just that, legal but annoying gunfire
The Full Auto part, if true might be more the issue.
Its legal too possess full auto weapons with the right FFL, but I'm not sure if you can fire them just anyplace?

DB, was on too something. Although I'm not sure I would want too confront people about a campfire I had issue with, when they also were firing a lot of rounds, legal or not.
I would probably paddle over EARLY next morning and act like I was just cruising by and check out the situation. IF anyone was up, I'd act naive and say something like " Did you guys hear all those FIREWORKS last night?" I figure if their morons, they couldn't resist telling someone about the firepower they had with them, and if they were in the right, they would tell you as well.
 Then I would determine whether they were just unaware of the potential problems, fires and gunfire can cause, or just didn't give a damn?
From that I'd either try too "enlighten them", or paddle on, noting numbers of party/ canoe registrations, and any physical descriptions and report that too the rangers/police when I got out.
I might even ask too take a few pictures of "campsite" for personal reference.
I'm sure there is more too this story, time will tell?

I 'll give it a few more years......and then we will alll wonder where our  freedoms have gone..... Well freedom is an illusion anyway....but in any case. I have had what I consider recreational fires, one on a week trip, for the boy.....clicked off some picts and called it good. Then I think of the recreational fire that a buddy has had and they have been the size of houses, note the plural. Some of the citizens of this fine country like to shoot.....go down to any county sheriff's office and ask about permits both 4 purchase and to carry and consider the ammo prices and you will be confronted with it. The right to bear and shoot are clearly covered in the laws of this land. If you did not like it and did not want to do anything about it, a very pervasent problem in this fine country, maybe intrusting the goverment to solve the problem is not the answer simply because it is a very expensive way to have one's way....and your way is not the only way to skin that kitty, Bumabu. Tolerance, reflection upon the law, moving campsites, all would have been possiblites and those are the ones that I am confronted with right now. Now I can understand being confronted with the sound of gun fire if one is not use to it. I can understand the strong desire to "protect" the land. I can understand your point of view BUT sometimes  you have to know when to fold them and know when to walk away and trust that the professionals in government and tolerate the differences in humanity.


Disclaimer:I had a bad day yesterday!

My source says there are over 61,000 registered permit holders in MN as of 4/30/09.

It's possible, rather than a fully automatic weapon, that they were using a .22 AR (.22 caliber rifle made to look like an automatic weapon or assault rifle) that was fitted with a trigger crank.

Picture an old gatling gun with a crank.  You can mount the crank on the trigger of a .22 AR to allow really quick sucessive trigger pulls.

Still though, doesn't make it any more comforting even assuming it was just a tricked out AR.

I'm going in up there in just a couple days.  Sounds like I may need more kevlar than just the canoe.