25 Warning about North Country Canoe Outfitters!!! (Read 20253 times)
jimmar
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Re: Warning about North Country Canoe Outfitters!!!
Reply #20 - Jul 8th, 2009 at 4:14pm
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Old_Salt,

Well said!
  
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PhantomJug
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Re: Warning about North Country Canoe Outfitters!!!
Reply #21 - Jul 8th, 2009 at 4:56pm
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I've never used an outfitter for anything* and at the prices some of you folks pay I'm curious as to why you just don't purchase your own equipment?  Or at the very least, purchase everything but a canoe and simply rent that item only?  Between me and Pascanell we share almost everything.  He buys this, I buy that - we use it together or when one of of needs it alone, it's available.

If it were me, I'd take that $1,000 refund and buy a decent pack and the gear I think I might need.  IMO, trusting a total stranger to adequately pack for you on a trip that means so much is not a risk worth taking.

I realize that this is not the point of NH's post and I'm sorry he had such a bad experience.  But, good outfitter, bad outfitter?  Whatever.  Get your own stuff and "fuh getta 'bout it."

*(Correction.  I once rented a life jacket from a Canadian outfitter to avoid a Crown Land Camping fee.  It stayed in the car.)
  
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marlin55388
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Re: Warning about North Country Canoe Outfitters!!!
Reply #22 - Jul 8th, 2009 at 5:25pm
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Sorry to here about the experience was not up to your standards....The sound advise on the thread regarding relationships, trusting your gut sense, not speaking or acting out of anger; can be challenging to all of us at times, and rolling with the punches...all very sound advise... hind sight is always 20/20 and talk is the easy part... walking the walk is another story. Buy the gear, do the planning, and let the others use the outfitters... when they are ready they will spread their wings too,  I think your ready to let that all go and move on to better and bigger things. Kudos to your venting, but the problem was with him and it should have been sorted out with him-a letter to him maybe rather than a thread...and I surmise that he has his own problems that are not confined to the business, and those clearly you got B4 the trip happened, and none....absolutely none of that is an excuse for any of the poor behavior. Is it worth cleaning it up...maybe....maybe not...Good luck! it sounded like it SUCKed for all! Reflect on the golden rule Smiley
  
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solotripper
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Re: Warning about North Country Canoe Outfitters!!!
Reply #23 - Jul 8th, 2009 at 10:45pm
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 After reading all the posts and the many good ideas contained in them, and hearing the full account of what happened, I think like other's have mentioned, something "else" was going on, not necessarily related too the aggrieved party personally?
 Some people can't leave their personal issues at home where they belong, or take business problems out on their workmates and even their customers. Either case is the death-null for the business owner.
 I appreciate NH Hawk posting his experience. As he said, you can take it for what it's worth or not. IF he remained silent, and someone else posted about a similar experience and NHH chimed in then, he would feel bad about it and would be admonished by some for not speaking up at the time.
 The service business, especially a seasonal one lives or dies on word of mouth and the best customer service they can provide. Humans make mistakes, the best you can do is take responsibility for them, make an honest effort to make things right and work diligently to eliminate them in the future.
 I can give someone a "second" chance if the take responsibility, but if they don't, their DEAD too me, that extends into my personal life as well.
 On the other-side of the coin, I've been privy too a few phone conversations between QDave and customers where the abuse was in the other direction. It takes a certain personality type too be in the "people" business.
 My hat's off too anyone who does it well Wink
 
  
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Son_Of_Red
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Re: Warning about North Country Canoe Outfitters!!!
Reply #24 - Jul 9th, 2009 at 4:00am
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With rare exception, I venture forth to Quetico annually, and some years, will paddle in the early spring and near the end of the season.  All told, I've been outfitted 28 times by NCCO, and once, the first time, by the Boy Scouts Sommers base.  A couple of those trips were in the BWCA.

Over those years, I've led two different scout troops on multiple trips, and have been a party on several private trips with friends and family.  The experience described by the upset camper sounds a bit bizarre to me, primarily because of perspective and because of suspected embellishment.

Perspective:  Over those many trips I've enjoyed, boys have lost cooking pots   Adults have spilled the coffee.  I've melted spoons, and burned my wet boots.  High winds tore up a tent, and we've tipped over on a few occasions to find we had soggy bags, personal gear, and ruined food.  My point is that you adapt, you respond to your situation, and you can either have a good time adjusting to these set backs, or you can let them consume you.  Sarah from Prairie is about 10 or 11 portages, if memory serves.  It takes two days if you travel heavy, in my experience.  I've done it in one day--but was dead tired and set up the tent in the dark, only to find that we'd left a pack containing our sleeping bags at a prior portage. 

Whether you, your party, or the outfitter makes a mistake, you have choices to make --either you accept the situation or you let it upset you.  The perspective of not having a fork or a spoon, is easy enough to overcome.  A missing hot pad?  Take a glove, or use a handkerchief.  The reaction appears to be WAY overboard in relation to the perspective of the oversight, which was fixed the next day.

Embellishment:  I'm wary of anyone who says I don't intend to skewer someone--I just want to get the facts out.  Hogwash.  NCCO has a full compliment of repeat customers, and consistently has earned high marks from everyone I've paddled with.  It sounds like $1000 for a day's loss of cooking utensils is an incredibly responsible gesture.  Didn't get the canoe you wanted?  Why not ask for it then, or take it up with the pimpled faced 16 year old staffer, if the outfitter wasn't present?  Why didn't he ask for the right canoes either at the commencement of the trip, or while he was using the Sat phone to complain about the spoons and forks.

Service:  Let's see, NCCO couldn't carry the pack to the customer because it didn't have a permit.  That makes sense to me.  I've had to buy one every year, and last I checked, the quotas are usually full.  It sounds like the outfitter paid a tow boat operator to deliver the pack with the missing equipment to the entry point into the park.  Last I checked, the trip from where the customer spent night one was an easy trip back to get the pack.  Would I be miffed that I had to return to get this?  Probably, assuming that I thought I really needed it.

How on earth that trip back to Prairie in an empty canoe would cost the group the ability to go to Sarah on day two, after the weather held them back on day one, is disingenuous to blame on the outfitter.  I've had a canoe break before and have had the outfitter send up a replacement for which we have returned from North Bay, and he did that without charge.  I guess if I were a different person, I'd blame all my woes on the outfitter, and if he didn't respond to a shake down for what I want, I'd do my best to knife him in whatever way I could--if I were a different person.  But I'm not.

My advice:  Get over it--go with another outfitter.  But before the next time that you suggest a business is so vile that no one should use it, examine your perspective and motivation for what you write.   I'm not sure that a full refund would satisfy some people, as I sense is the case here.
  
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Old Salt
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Re: Warning about North Country Canoe Outfitters!!!
Reply #25 - Jul 9th, 2009 at 4:05am
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Great first post! Welcome aboard! Great insight!
  
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Stumpy
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Re: Warning about North Country Canoe Outfitters!!!
Reply #26 - Jul 9th, 2009 at 5:07am
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Old Salt wrote on Jul 9th, 2009 at 4:05am:
Great first post! Welcome aboard! Great insight!


Ditto !
  
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canoejack
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Re: Warning about North Country Canoe Outfitters!!
Reply #27 - Jul 9th, 2009 at 1:33pm
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I haven't visited QJ lately, but ran across this thread.  NH Hawk, and everyone, please take a look at the attached search results page - anytime anyone Googles "North Country Canoe Outfitters," this "warning" post is already #5 in organic results.  If I was this outfitter, I would have to take the impact this could have on my business very seriously indeed.  I'm not personally litigious, but we all know society in general is.

jdrock's comment bears repeating: exercise some caution these days on this type of thread. the other guy claims slander/defamation and you end up in court. plenty of recent precedent.

I think there are more discretionary ways to tell others about this situation rather than blasting a "Warning!!!" - with three exclamation points - through the megaphone of the internet that ends up on page one in Google for all to see.

Whether you agree this thread is appropriate or not, some food for thought.
  
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jburns
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Re: Warning about North Country Canoe Outfitters!!!
Reply #28 - Jul 9th, 2009 at 4:46pm
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As a frequent visitor to the BWCA and Quetico, I have appreciated some of the posts in this forum. Similarly to Son_Of_Red, I have had many dealings with North Country Canoe Outfitters over the past 6 years and have been pleased time and time again.

I don't want to downgrade NHHawk's experience, but it sounds like just a fluke. From what was written, it seems like the owners of NCCO did their best to make up for their mistake.

In my experience, the owners of NCCO are friendly, helpful, and well-informed. Most of all, I have found their primary focus to be the satisfaction of their customers. I will continue to go back to NCCO for any outfitting needs in the future.
  
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Kris
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Re: Warning about North Country Canoe Outfitters!!!
Reply #29 - Jul 9th, 2009 at 5:16pm
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If NCCO was such a bad outfitting business, wouldn't there be TONS of postings all over these BWCAW web sites from unsatisfied customers?!  They are a very reputable business and are always very professional in my dealings with them.  $1000 refund for a set of cooking utensils...hmmm....it sounds like you were able to eat and didn't starve to death.  I would hate to see how you handle such stressful situations in every day life.  Get over it - life is too short to be slandering people on the internet!
  
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