Wow, I think there is a huge disconnect here.  I first came to the BWCA in 1990 as a result of meeting John Scheifelbein in Chicago at the Outdoor show.  I have been back 16 or 17 times since then, and have never been the least disappointed in the way that I have been treated by him or his staff.
John has gone out of his way to assure that my trip is a sucess each year.  I have returned with my children, my wife and my friends in part as a result of the friendship that we have formed through the years.  
Each trip John reviews my plans with me, offers hints if he has any, shares stories and gives me his undivided attention.  Nothing in the experiance you describe even sounds remotely like anything I have experianced.  
John has done this for me despite the fact that I probably have never paid him as much as $500.  I get a canoe and three Duluth packs, fishing license and permit delivery from him.  If he had to succeed with customers like me I don't think he would make it.  Still I am treated the same as if I had booked the gold package.  
The canoe country trip is a hard trip, that is an important part of the experiance.  You must make adjustments to discomfort and minor misfortune when it occurs.  If you are unable to handle the loss of your plastic ware what would you do if something really bad happens.  I believe that North Country has gotten a bad rap here and can't believe the punishment fits the crime.
I will be back to the BWCA next year and I will outfit through North Country and I will do so because these are good people and they have become my friends.  If you wish to know more about my experiance there I would be happy to share it further.  I hope no one makes a decision to not outfit through North Country because of this overblown "warning" posted.

I think things are playing out as they should in a free and open venue.
NH-Hawk posted his version of events and we responded with varying degree's of sympathy/skepticism/outrage sometimes in the same post.
There's ALWAYS 3 sides to any story, yours/mine and in most cases the truth, somewhere in the middle.
 NHH, said he believes North Country would agree with his version, I'm sure that will be played out in on-line forums or maybe the legal arena.
 I think some good has come out of this, people who have never posted before have rallied around NCCO, and that is a good thing.
 I would way heartfelt personal recommendations just as much as I would posts of a negative nature.
 NO-ONE really knows what happened other than the parties directly involved. We've heard one side, hopefully we'll hear the other.
 Someone said we should view posts like NHH's with a skeptical eye, well in fairness we need too view All posts, for and against in the same light.
 I like too give EVERYONE who post's here the benefit of the doubt on the veracity of their posts. In most cases the truth in time will come out.
 I'm sure other Canoe Country sites are discussing this issue too.
 I would NEVER use a outfitter that I didn't check out with the Better Business Bureau, or that didn't have a recommendation from a person that I felt trustworthy.
 The NCCO have been around for years, so IF this is more than an isolated incident, I'm sure there would be some record of other complaints about poor service. I'm still digesting a 1000.00 dollar refund, I can't imagine spending much more than that on the WHOLE trip  
 The last few posts offered glowing recommendations, so both sides are being represented which is as it should be.
 I would hope NCCO would address this, I'm sure by now their aware of what's been said.  
 Either the story is basically factual, or it's so far from the truth, that it rises too the level of being slanderous?
 I don't know how much harm this might cause NCCO future business?
It seems too me that will be a matter for the courts if legal action is warranted?
 
 

"Fair winds and following seas"...

that's a fine salutation, but the reality of adventurous endeavors is quite different. i've used outfitters of all sorts in different locations and could write a book about the things that did not go according to plan or promise. some minor, but in other cases we were lucky nobody died.

without peeking at my trip notes, i might have trouble recalling the day of calm before the storm. i wouldn't need my notes to remember the storm itself. sit at any campfire, and the stories that are rolling around are not usually of the things that went right, but of the things that went wrong-sometimes terribly wrong. if it wasn't the least funny then, the campfire version will get laughs every time. pick a calamity off the menu and i could probably tell a story to match. whatever happened, it never ruined a trip.

so if you believe in that adage "if things always went right, there would be nothing to talk about", you would have some entertaining things to say about this trip. your memories would have made a better campfire story than a canoe forum story.

Here is how my call from Bayley Bay, to the Outfitter would have gone....
"Hello John,...Guess what !, You owe us big time....You left out the whole silverware kit !......Don't worry about it...We already carved some pronged sticks to use as forks, made a birch bark spatula, and carved a sufficeint big spoon...lol, and we all have pocket knives of course.......Yeah, like I said, you owe us big time. A cold twelve-pack when you pick us up on a tow, should do...lol. I expect our home made cook ware to go on display in your lodge...lol, ok take care"

If I was an Outfitter again (I helped manage CBO for years), and I refunded ONE THOUSAND DOLLARS !!!! over some flat ware, I would think that was the end of it.
I would be SHOCKED to find out that someone taking such a large refund, would be ripping me, and posting my name and my business' name on the internet.
What is your real name, NHHawk ?
I think it's only fair that your name is posted here, for all to see.
If I was an outfitter, I think I would want to avoid you, based on what I have read here.
John Scheifelbein refunded this guys "team", 1000 dollars, in good faith....Only to be blasted on the internet.
I think it's clear, which one of you was able to "man up", when all was said & done.
I wonder how big of a shoulder chip, he could have bought for 2000 dollars.

solotripper wrote on Jul 8^th, 2009 at 10:45pm:


Good point; they do a job I could never, ever succeed in. it really DOES take a special breed to not only run a business like this, but to sustain it as well.

I had just such an experience as you mention early this year. I was at <an unnamed outfitters> the first week of June, when the owner got a call. It was from an out of state individual that had won a canoe the prior summer, and was going to show up in a few days to pick it up and go out on a trip with it. It was clear that the winner had no clue that the canoe needed to be registered to be used in the BW, and seemed to be getting irritated that they would have to jump through numerous government hoops to TRY to get it registered on a weekend when they arrived. The outfitter kept an even temperament, and even did their best to help the winner (WHINER?) out by providing some resources to accomplish what he needed to do.

So here was a case of someone who dawdled away almost a whole year, waited until the very last minute, did not do the proper research, and yet seemed to want to blame the outfitter. Had I been in the outfitters position, it would have become clear quite quickly why I would never make it in that business.

As others have said, it would be interesting to hear the outfitters side of the story. A $1000 refund is nothing short of amazing.