Been thinking about the experiences that I have over the years a bit more. I thought that for some that I should expand on them a bit more. More than fifteen years ago, before GPS units were widely available at an affordable price, I had an experience that made me look at evac, situations a bit differently, IMHO, than most. It rolls nicely into the premise of their ownership in a "wilderness" setting; and it is the reason that I knew that having those folks go for help on the Seagull/Alpine endeavor would/could mean having the injured party lay until the next morning. The experience that I am reflecting on was a complicated one to say the least. Going to try and keep it as simple as I can and simply stick to the facts.

1. We dealt with state lines.
2. We dealt with county lines-multiple sheriff offices and jurisdiction issues between the Feds and Locals.
3. USGS maps that were not accurate-coordinate issue between 7.5 minute and 15 minute maps.
4.Major turn over in the helicopter pilots that fly the helitech crews.
5.The search and rescue folks did not have GPS so they had a hard time figuring out where we were...we knew but they were unfamiliar with the area due to turn over of pilots and employees.

Not trying to paint a bad picture of the professionals at all. Just sharing the facts so that your wits can remain in a good place when running through the possibilities in the trip planning.

Thanks, looks like the boy had a great time. 

Was that snake shedding or was it just two-toned? Does that look like a defensive posture to anyone else?

really nice marlin   :exclamation   

Piggyn wrote on Aug 4^th, 2009 at 3:20am:


Reading this thread makes me think back to my half century of canoe country experience and emergency situations.  I’ve canoed with family, friends, church groups and Boy Scouts.  As a Scout leader you do your best to make sure the group brings all the proper gear on the list.  Of course our Scout groups are generally prepared for the trip in that they at least have experience with water safety, canoeing, monthly Scout camping trips, and we only allow senior Scouts on the adventure.  Incidents to watch out for include twisted ankles, burns from the fire, hot water, and particularly watch out for hot grease; and cuts associated with knives or axes.  We relied on outfitters for the canoes, food and group equipment.  I’ve seen a novice group swamp canoes on the first day in wind and waves.  I’m always the one who reminds everyone in our group that we can always wait out the storm.   My background as a Safety Director I’ve learned that over 90% of accidents are caused by unsafe acts.  Most situations can be addressed though leadership, planning and proper safety rules. Some lessons are easy to see and correct, but some are tough situations.  Proper leadership knows when to get assistance, and of course watch out for advice from people who think they are the know-it-alls.

People say that they learn by experience, but experience is a tough way to learn because you have to take the test first without knowing the answers.  Some people it’s hard for them to ask or pay for advice.  A friend of mine told me that his family went on their first canoe trip with their gear and food in paper grocery bags instead of Duluth packs.  I’d like to hear the stories of what outfitters see and hear from novice canoeists’ experiences.  I’ve had canoeists (on Crooked Lake) paddle over and asked us where they were.  I remember an incident a friend told me that they had a novice group portage though their campsite on the horseshoe-shaped island on Moose Lake.  They had paddled down to the end of the bay and thought they were at the end of the lake.  Lesson: Map reading is an art and it can be difficult to get use to the scale, I always orient the map in the direction that I’m proceeding, mount a compass on my vest, and use points, bays and campsites for reference points.  I’ve once met a group on a portage (in October) and they asked if they could borrow some matches.  Lesson: Be prepared.   I have some friends who were novice college canoeists and got up in the morning preparing breakfast and had a neighboring canoeist from a campsite down the lake towing their canoe back that had blown away in the night.  They asked; “Is this your canoe?”  They didn’t even know that it was missing.  Lesson: be sure to tie your canoe up at night.

Here are some of the emergency situations experienced or heard of from friends.   A friend of mine was on a Quetico trip with Boy Scouts where they had a severe thunderstorm blow down a huge clump of mature, +100’ tall white pines in the middle of the night on their campsite.  The trees crashed though the Scouts tent impaling the middle of a sleeping bag, just missing the Scouts, no one was injured.  Once on a month long canoe trip, a week out from civilization, we had one of our party get a fishhook in the thumb and we performed bite-the-bullet surgery. Had one incident we had an experienced camper cut their hand with and axe on the last day of the trip and we canoed him to the Ely emergency room for stitches.  My brother was on a Scout trip years back where an inexperienced scout on first day out cut his leg with an axe and they evacuated him by canoeing him out navigating the numbered lakes in the dark.  My friend had a canoeist have an epileptic seizure and fell out of their canoe in frigid October water (no life vest).  My wife’s brother died of hypothermia on a winter x-country ski trip.  My uncle died of a heart attack on his annual canoe trip with my cousins.

One rule is when an emergency situation comes along; make sure you don’t compound the situation by doing something (stupid) without thinking through the consequences.  Proper leadership, planning, proper safety rules, first-aid kit, being physically fit, and of course proper outfitting, supplies and equipment and prepare for the worst.  Proper leadership includes planning to know how much you can accomplish in a day, and knowing when you need help from outfitters.  You live and learn, and hopefully you make the right decisions.

starwatcher

So, I was just thinkin'....About the folks that may not go back and read the thread, not that I am attached to anything in this situation but to the knowledge that may be shared through it. Let's see here. I to have experienced a fatality on trail, trauma type injuries from a falling boulder...not the leader of the group in question, but closely attached to the woman that died. Actually just came across the evac. plan drafted by my friend a few days ago, good plan for a bad situation, it was tucked away in a book years ago...but that is another story. I have had the experiences of folks that I was guiding brake a foot, brake a nose, have mental troubles on numerous occasions, burns-sun for the most part, and hypothermia on many occasions-one of which should have killed the twelve year old...Listening or the lack there of, both to the self and to the colleague played a roll in all of them is some way or another. Here's is to all the things that we dont know we dont know, and more importantly to be open to them! Novice, beginner, those are just as dangerous as being an "expert". Expect the unexpected.