Some of this should produce lively conversation/dialog....with that and this said I was cautioned by a good friend that one can't cure ignorance...my spelling will attest to this fact...and really trully I am not even going to attempt to cure anything... it is just a story that will in time segway to the, I hope, exchange of knowledge and not the passing of judgement on anyone or anything...and foreshadow a trip report by my son and myself....it is just a story....so please no one get hot under the collar

Tuesday afternoon-7/28/09 approx. 3:15pm.....
The boy(8 yrs old) and I where on the 105 rod portage from Alpine into Sea Gull, on the Sea Gull side-eating a bit and waiting for the rain to slow a bit before we finished up our trip-low 60's-high 50's-windy/good surf-and raining. We had a group of three come upon us and were oozing a major vibe of panic.... Well the long and the short of is that( as I am a bit pressed for time) one of their party had broken their leg! When I expressed my background in some detail...a decision was make, on my part, to go back and assist them with situation....When I got there I found a group in in cotton, wet, with many hypothermic, and UTTERLY unprepared for the most part....The injured party was on medication that was not hers, wet, and had blue lips and was shivering....not to metion a busted leg-tiba fracture! Wow-well that was them anywayz! My eight yr old had the where with all to convey this to a party of 3 awesome forest service workers...he was on the portage with one of the adult party(injured party) members-they were actually all adults in my mine set...well sort of! The long and the short of it was that we got her out-after I splitted her leg, worked on the hypotherma issue of some of there party members, got their group together with a plan, got assitance from the forest service workers with the extrication from the island on alpine...and did the hobble and life jacket buggy carry across the 105, arrange for a motorized portage from the south side of three mile island...etc, etc, etc....

Not one of there party of thirteen had decent visible rain gear, all were in cotton and wet, there was one goose down sleeping bag...one synthetic bag...otherwise the all had cotton cabin bags...life jackets were optional....am I painting the picture?

I will leave with these closing thoughts...Thank you Sea Gull Canoe Outfitters for the donation of the wet portage boat...Thank you Forest Service trail maintenance group-you are great people! Ian that "tack" brace was the bomb, U will be forever known to me as Captain Braceman!I am trully glad Mick and I were there to help you Church Group folks with the situation. D I hope that you work through the rehabit issues and the surgery with courage and perserverance; and You get back on the horse that bucked ya off...and get a good pair of boots-2 all-b4 the next trip a long with a bunch of other gear!

In addition....I am confronted once again with the concept of Wilderness and what it means?

Well that's a start...got a date...got to go

M

Oh man, that sucks all the way around except for perhaps the 8 yr old. All trips seem to have ended on a sour note except maybe his. Lively discussions happen when "it could never happen to me" or you put a better bullseye on it. This, on the other hand, could happen to any of us - any trip.

I see two things here. Cotton kills and be prepared. Well, cotton doesn't kill and being prepared, well, that's a nebulous thing. I wear cotton all the time and even sleep in it wet. My very first trip was with jeans, tennies, and a Sears cotton (huge) bag ... shivered most of my ass off and got soaked but nothing got broken. Cotton works for me these days (not jeans though) and the degree of wet is in the eye of the beholder, adjusted by season. I've seen people in hefty bags having a great time surfing - I tend to look the other way. Breaking a leg? That's nearing slow death to me.

I'm surprised they didn't have one or two canoes haul her out or simply (quicker) go for help so close. What? No one snuck a phone in?

Theater people say "break a leg" as in 'good luck" (JW Booth). Somehow I think we should do that too. I see first solo trips way more than I'd like to 'cause it's stupid when you get right down to it - yet it happens more and more often. Had one person not been unfortunate enough to break something, they'd have all probably had a great trip. Shit happens. The really unfortunate (for you) and fortunate (for her) thing is the ~14th person was the one with the "ah crap, now what" improv.

Safety in numbers? To me, numbers simply add risk. Hey, be careful out there.

YB-thought about the rapid thing-did it some 15 years ago and blew my knee then...and wanted to get it done and I thought that adding more more paddle time with the winds that where with us that day the process would be slowed.

DB-They were going for help-one of the first things that I did after I got the backround info was to look at my watch and do the math...my believe was that she would probably be there over night if we had done it that way...been there and done that and the outcome was not good...it was bad bad out come! I was concerned about shock B4 I even saw her. The group would have been in better shape with Hefty bags! I did not have cell phone coverage at trails end...but that gets us into the query-What is wilderness? Totally get the numbers gig-we are trully the variable in life....The improv thing is a blessing and I know it is there for me...that is why I am glad I was there for them...some got panic I got clarity but the thing of it is I still dropped the ball on the back side of the evac. Our group got split coming across Seagull-I should have insisted on pulling the forest service folks and myself in the sterns and them in the bows-I was fool for that! I should have also done a better job with D and maintained the level of care until that was taken over by folks at the GM hospital! My bad! She was shocky and quiet-at least that was my take...I was exhausted which is a poor excuse.

Solo-If I cant cure stupid...why should a outfitter be held accountable too...I have over heard folks-outfitters included-with there thoughs about my travels in the wilderness with my boy...he started at 2.In fact we were told to stay of the "big water"...sound advice for a "novice"...sound advice in bad weather...sound advice for weak paddlers...Heck it is a good piece of advice and the choice is up to me and my judgment...right. Mick shared the info with the rangers when the daughter began to cry! In this case I would start with the trip leader for sure-I am commited to not passing judgment in this situation...boy it is really tough not to say more in this case!

So wilderness-what is it to you folks?

 marlin55388,

I agree, you can't fix stupid!
However you don't have too abet it either.
IMHO, an outfitter has a moral obligation even if only renting a canoe, to do a cursory check on the equipment or lack of.
  Even if they have the group leader(s) read over a recommended gear list.
 I ran into 2 young German students ( guy/gal) the first year I tried going solo. It was in Algonquin Park.
Compared too the Q/BW, it's so well used, that ALL the portages/campsites are marked with big orange markers on posts.
Visible clear across even the biggest lakes.
Still it has enough "wild" that you can get hurt or lose your life.
Bears there are acclimated too the "day" paddlers, and it's such a problem, they have a full time crew cleaning campsites and portages.
I encountered the 2 visitors on a portage in the interior of park. Here they come down the trail, he was carrying the canoe, she was carrying 2 garbage bags with their 2 sleeping bags, NO tent/tarp, and their FOOD consisted of of 2/3 loaves of bread and a big jar of peanut butter!
 No rain/bug/first-aid gear of any kind. NO compass and only a cheap Outfitter map/brochure for guidance.
HE walked right passed me ( a guy thing) SHE dropped the bags and had tears in her eyes as she approached!
She spoke a little English, I was married too a German gal for awhile, so we made do. She called her boyfriend back, and made him show me their "map". I pointed to the outfitter lake and then pointed to where we were then. Turns out he was reading map UPSIDE down, and had NO clue. For the last 2 days, they had been going deeper into park, instead of coming out. They also thought they were on a lake/portage 2 lakes over!
I got a magic marker and zip lock bag and marked their exit course. I also gave them some extra rope and got them too understand they should hang their "food" at night. I also took note of canoe outfitter logo, it was from the entry point I came in on.
When I got back, I loaded my gear and rental canoe from another outfitter, and went up to the outfitting shack.
I told them what I had run into and they found the Germans on the rental roster. The manager was very upset and said that they try hard not too let things like that happen. Busy season/time, some newbie worker didn't think too ask ANY questions or at least have the experience too know they should.
 I didn't make a federal case out of it, he seemed sincere, and I had made my point.
 I don't understand very much German, but being an EX, I do remember the cuss words As I moved on, I'm pretty sure the young Fraulein was using some choice one's toward her inept boyfriend

Hey JJ-if I would have had my packs with me ....I would have used the foam back insert from inside the pack and para cord....but alas I ended up using a root section from a blow down and the dry line(kite string) that their group had along with one of their soaked cotton sweat shirts....improvise! Circulation is easier to access than with duct tape. NOLS has a great wilderness medicine publication.

I believe that they were ignorant....due to their lack of experience and fore thought----if they did it again! Oh s@#$ then they would be stupid and my impression was that the came with their own gear as they seemed to be really proud of their score of used Al "boy scout" canoes....But that opens again the debate or rather the issue of responsibility. Maybe it should have fallen on the synod office....or the pastor himself....Been though this all before within the YMCA....Ergo my queiry about responsibilities and the question in regard to "WILDERNESS". I had some interesting discussions with certain folks about evacs. in the BWCAW during this experience. How can you make a person more responsible? U cant with out policy changes! Oh boy and that is another whole can of worms. In a nut shell the cards all landed in the right fashion for this group to have this happen the way that it did. Still wonder how D is doing however...I surmise the injury will hobbler her for life; unless she really evolves-and I hope she does as I hope their group and policies do. If they dont and continue to do this annual trip the way that they do they should seriously have their heads examined! The whole thing makes me wonder too what is the price tag for the forest service and other supporting offices for search and rescue..."Cant bar anyone" how about educated them.... I'm still amazed by what I saw when I hit that island, but I am experienced enough to know that anything can happen-but I will say that I am suprized that it didn't happen for this group many years ago during this annual trip. "Dont trust wet rock"-I am sure that Mickey is so sick of hearing this! 2 BAD  

I witness recently a whole family-grandpa to grand children-hike back to the Beartooth Hwy in a thunderstorm at about 10,800 ft. My girl friend still gives me a hard time for giving the group a piece of my mind-2 BAD! share the knowledge....Thanks to all for this web site-educate them....educate myself!