25 Getting to Beaverhouse (Read 30209 times)
solotripper
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Re: Getting to Beaverhouse
Reply #10 - Aug 11th, 2009 at 5:25pm
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Paddlerpj,
  I had a "bad" experience backpacking in the Porcupine Mts back in the late 70's, it left an indelible mark.
Four of us came out of the park to find that vandals/thief's, had stole ALL our street clothes, tool box, cooler, cut radiator hose's, cut fan belt, cut battery cables and stole battery, and broke the front windshield.
No cell phones in that day, I hitched into nearest town, and found service station and had it towed in for repair.
It was my brothers BORROWED 4x4. Cost me $500, big money back then. WE made a police report, and the detective told us about a guy who they KNEW in a local village, fenced stolen property. WE made a little visit and recovered thee tool box and a few clothes, a story better left for another time Wink
From that day on, I've NEVER left a vehicle in back country, other than for day trips.

Jackfish,
  There's "local" politics involved in the OUTFITTER only idea. Sadly some AMERICANS do their part to fuel the idea. ALL of the illegal campers I've seen are from here. Unfortunately some people from the US "think" that the rules don't apply when their in a foreign country.
That attitude, plus some outfitters clients have had their vehicles vandalized/stolen property, gives rise to the idea that IF no-one parks there, the problem goes away?
  Tribal politics might be involved as well? I had one Native Ranger tell me that since many people don't check in at ranger station because they have their permits/licenses all ready, that "he" didn't know who was in legal or not? He said that they had caught people who came in with O paperwork and just thought they could get away with it?
  Politics/Control and Income issues, are all in play. Don't know if it will EVER happen, but morons, especially US grown ones, parking illegally won't help any that's for sure Sad I figure one good fire from an illegal campfire there would probably get the ball rolling?
  
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PhantomJug
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Re: Getting to Beaverhouse
Reply #11 - Aug 11th, 2009 at 5:34pm
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solotripper wrote on Aug 10th, 2009 at 6:27pm:
  Quetico Dave said that there is a group of outfitters, that want to restrict the entry points to thru outfitters only


C'mon ST, you know better than that.

You park anywhere at your own risk so just be mindful of what you leave in plain site and last I checked the parking lots that I have visited this year (BH, Nym, Lerome) were not littered and I can't recall a time when I have picked up garbage at an access point with the exception of Nym Lake, whose parking lot hosts the local garbage bin.  No one is camping at trail heads either.  Although i've witnessed folks dozing in their truck bed before, by the look of it, it was after they got out of the park. Lastly, Americans are not sneaking into the park at a rate that you seem to suggest.  Spending an extra day?  Possibly, but certainly nothing to the likes of what you or an Outfitter might suggest.

So, can we please stop dispelling rumors, speculation, exaggeration, half truths or outright lies about this subject and stick to the facts please.   Smiley

I would suggest a reading of the (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links), pages 65-66 on proposed changes for visitor use as there is no mention of restricting access for the purposes proposed here.  In fact, I would suggest that they are trying to implement changes in the exact opposite direction.
« Last Edit: Aug 11th, 2009 at 7:07pm by PhantomJug »  
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solotripper
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Re: Getting to Beaverhouse
Reply #12 - Aug 11th, 2009 at 8:52pm
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Well PJ,
 I have first hand knowledge, of the Native ranger telling me what I said, and the camping illegally was a first hand encounter as well.
 Quetico Dave's comment was told too me after MY encounter with the illegal campers at Beaverhouse. I have NO reason too doubt what he told me. The local outfitters are NOT all in agreement with how the park is run, I would say that it's probably the same in the BW.
 I NEVER said that I knew Americans were sneaking into the park, BUT that a Native Ranger told me that.
I stick by what I was told, but since you don't know me personally, and haven't experienced it, I can see why your dubious, and others will be as well.
As for the Quetico Planning document, that's what the government is proposing, like any issue, not all the locals are necessarily in agreement with it. Remember TRIBAL concerns and THEIR economic interests are in play here too.
  Quote:
rumors, speculation, exaggeration, half truths or outright lies

 Is 1st person encounters a rumor? Speculation? maybe, the rest, your way off base.
 
 Since I can't PROVE my statements, I agree, I will refrain from saying anything more on the subject.
  
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PhantomJug
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Re: Getting to Beaverhouse
Reply #13 - Aug 11th, 2009 at 9:35pm
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Please take no offence ST - but if it was an issue it would have been brought up so it could have been implemented or at least talked about.  Outftters and the 1st Nation have a direct line of communication with the MNR as well.  However, it was not. 

How does one illegally camp in Quetico while on at Beaverhouse though?  It's not in the park. 

BTW, a native Ranger at BH once told me that day, he caught 40 walleye in one hour at the outlet of the river from Quetico to BH too.  "Really?" I said.  "Yup, 40 just this morning."  Funny, since we were there at 8am and the motor wasn't on his boat AND his wife had to get him out of bed.  So, I wouldn't believe everything I hear nor would I repeat it unless I could verify it with a secondary, reliable and credible source.  But thats just me.
  
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wally
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Re: Getting to Beaverhouse
Reply #14 - Aug 11th, 2009 at 11:12pm
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Beaverhouse /or parking lot is not in the Q?....what did I miss?  My maps show the parking inside Q borders as well...It's a Fisher and always suspect though.  Perhaps I should go back and re-read this entire thread.

Let me spread some rumors as well...I've met and seen Americans in the park without a Q permit on more than one occasion...6 days to boot.  Some got caught though at PP.  My OPINION...I bet it happens all the time.

Some folks might even say that Wally has snuck into the Q....but that's second hand rumor.

I buy the idea that local Canadian outfitters want restricted access through themselves.  IMO...they are cutting their own throat.  But I don't give a hoot...their park/their rules.  I think their recent rule changes/fee changes over the last two years are bitting them....but that's only opinion as well.
  
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PhantomJug
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Re: Getting to Beaverhouse
Reply #15 - Aug 11th, 2009 at 11:23pm
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So many questions . . .

Do you people ask for other people's permits?  Or, do they volunteer the info?  How do you get so close to people to have a conversation?  Do you paddle up to people?  They paddle up to you?  If so, why don't you paddle away from them?  Where are you having all this interpersonal communication in the Quetico?  (You must enter from the  PP Interstate down south I assume)

I've heard that the PhantomJug has spent unpaid nights in the Q too - but 6?  C'mon.  Look, I'm sure it's happened but certainly not enough to warrant the emergency flag that ST threw up here.  If an outfitter is going to live and work right next door to gov't controlled real estate that they depend on for a living, well . . . you get what you get I'm afraid.  While they offer a service for many people I'm sure, no one owes them a living.  

And Wally, BH is not in the park.  You enter the park once you complete the portage into no name, quetico or the river on the west.

I can't believe you guys have so many conversations with other people up there though ? ? ?  Ive frequented Quetico 2 or more times per year since 1993 and can recall maybe 2 times when I had a conversation with someone other than an MNR ranger.  Weird.

My only point here is that I believe ST regurgitated some things he probably heard that I have to believe that even HE thinks are moot, insignificant political issues for the purpose of exaggerating a point.  There is no "Illegal camper" crisis or "trail head camping" crisis.  What we have are whining outfitters, tribal ranger and hear-say.
  
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solotripper
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Re: Getting to Beaverhouse
Reply #16 - Aug 12th, 2009 at 12:01am
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[

  I don't take offense, I don't expect anyone/everyone too believe the way I do or for that matter believe me.
 I can only say that like most people, my personal experiences shape what I say here.
 The outfitters and the 1st Nation do have a direct line of communication, I don't know IF they debate among themselves and their concerns are then put in one statement, or everyone gets a say?

Quote:
How does one illegally camp in Quetico while on at Beaverhouse though?  It's not in the park.

 It's my understanding that's it's illegal to camp in the BH parking lot OVERNIGHT or have fires, unless you go thru an outfitter and for whatever reason, you couldn't enter the park that day? I'm not positive, but I believe that there was a sign posted in Beaverhouse lot telling users that.  I know the time I went in thru Stanton Bay, I spent the night before camped in parking lot, with another couple that got there late. I was told, they told me that as long as we went thru outfitter, we were okay?
 The 1st Nation ranger that told me that, said that people were parking in Beaverhouse lot, and paddling in. When asked by him, he claimed that a number of them had NO park permits.
 Maybe he was the 40 walleye guy.
 My point was that WE shouldn't give the  "whiners", as you call them, ANY reason to point to "alleged illegal" activity as a reason to make
Beaverhouse like Stanton Bay.

Quote:
author=Jim J Solo link=1249906901/0#2 date=1249917714]ST, They parked a large rock in the middle of the road blocking the last ~50', or what was the old unloading/parking area. They want everybody to use a larger parking area just back some up the last hill. There is a small turn around and unload area near the rock,,,some are still parking there, even though it's well signed to use the parking area farther back.

 I ALWAYS have people paddle over if they pass by, or hail me when I pass their campsites. Maybe it's the solo thing, They either think I know "something", or want too ask how I can be up there all alone.
  
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PhantomJug
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Re: Getting to Beaverhouse
Reply #17 - Aug 12th, 2009 at 12:12am
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I believe you ST - It's the exaggeration and inflation of these so called "crisis" that have me miffed.  I'm curios to how anyone can get a vehicle past the rocks separating the old parking lot from the new one too?  There's barely room to walk through there?  Lastly, there are no signs at the BH lot - the only sign I have seen that says "no overnight camping" is at Lerome; which is private property BTW, allowed by the good graces of the land owner.  Stanton Bay is also private property, only he/she apparently has a deal with the Outfitters only.  The other northern entry parking areas are Crown land.

Quote:
I ALWAYS have people paddle over if they pass by, or hail me when I pass their campsites. Maybe it's the solo thing, They either think I know "something", or want too ask how I can be up there all alone.


I would paddle away in the opposite direction.  I've had a friendly "wave" at the campsite before and passing on portages but if I wanted company I would go the BWCA.   Grin
  
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solotripper
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Re: Getting to Beaverhouse
Reply #18 - Aug 12th, 2009 at 12:31am
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I can't say about the getting by the new rock thing?
The sign, well since it's been 2 years since I've been able to do a trip, maybe it was taken down?
I could "swear" there was a sign about "overnight" camping, and fires?
Anyway, I can "see" your point, that's what "reasonable discourse is all about" Wink
  
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jimmar
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Re: Getting to Beaverhouse
Reply #19 - Aug 12th, 2009 at 12:47am
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hope my post didn't spark a rift between two of my favorite contributors. Seems like healthy disagreement so far.

PJ - 40 Walleyes what was he using a gill net?

ST - 70's "street" clothes, you should be glad they were stolen.
  
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