25 Getting wet (Read 20519 times)
BrownTrout01
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Re: Getting wet
Reply #10 - Aug 15th, 2009 at 6:06am
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I apologize if this has already been posted, but thought it was interesting.

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In mid sept the water temps near shore are still pretty nice for swimming. Can't comment on middle of the lake (yet).

  
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azalea
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Re: Getting wet
Reply #11 - Aug 15th, 2009 at 4:03pm
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My wife and I just got back from a 8-day trip through the Allagash Wilderness Waterway in northern Maine.  This was the first time we did a remote canoeing trip by ourselves.  In the middle of the trip I realized how scary it was that we were all alone and what would we do if we did have an accident.  The trip is a combination of lakes and rivers so both scenarios existsed: dunking in the middle of a big lake and with shore a long way away and dunking in a river and watching your canoe go downstream without you.

Flash back to an August 2004 trip to Quetico. It is a cold windy day (I think that night was a record low temp) and we battle waves on Basswood Lake to get to campsite SU on Canadian point.  My raincoat is drenched from the constant rain and sweating while paddling. With multiple clothes layers and a small fire, the windy, cold conditions still leave me cold.  I eventually crawl into the tent and my sleeping bag to warm up.  Hypothermia would have been a serious threat had I been there in just my wet clothes.

This summer, our second day out in the AWW was one of contant drizzle/rain.  It started warm, so we were dressed in our quick-dry lightweight nylon clothes.  About 3pm, we reached a campsite and got off the lake just before the temperature dropped and the rain and wind picked up.  Those wet/cold conditions persisted throughout the rest of the night.  We spent the afternoon huddled under a tarp and dived into the tent early.  The northeast has been very wet this summer, building a decent fire in Maine was a real challenge under the best of conditions.  The problem was not getting a fire started with plenty of available of kindling, it was getting it to any size and keeping it going.  The larger pieces of wood (1 inch diameter) absorbed all the fire's energy just drying themselves out.

With that background, here is the scenario.  Under such conditions, you dunk say a half mile from shore.  Maybe instead of mid summer, it is at a time with cooler water, say in the low 60's.  We are probably talking 30-60 minutes to reach shore.  Once you get to shore, you are still in danger because of the wind, cold, and rain.  If all you have are some tools to make a fire, I would think you still could be in big trouble.

What I realized as I was reading this thread is I had the "solution" right behind me the whole trip.  One great find for canoeing gear I made a few years back is a clear vinyl Eureka Cloudburst waterproof backpack (no longer made).  It holds about 2500 cu in, enough for some dry clothes, first aid kit, and other survival equipment.  That pack was always behind the stern seat, clipped to the rear canoe handle.  It is small enough that unclipping it and swimming with it to shore would be no problem.  A lesson learned for future trips.
  
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marlin55388
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Re: Getting wet
Reply #12 - Aug 15th, 2009 at 4:06pm
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Good post with the cold water boot camp. As a guide for a YMCA camp we did  a thing called "swim and swamp", basically an accessment for camper swimming ablities and a primer for the group if a swamping did occur. Practiced a canoe over canoe rescue and a wet paddle(paddling the boat ashore full (or partially full of water)...I clearly remember that it was quite diffecult to dump the canoe in the first place, but then again I have dumped at ice out paddling a new boat many many years ago Grin.  But anyways...Had a cold day, windy, early in the spring and had to due the swim and swamp ShockedTold the kids to bring there"dry clothes" to change after-stressed that! But kids being kids-heck some adults cant listen either Smiley they did not listen. Inside of 5 minutes I had a camper thatr had tossed their cookies and was out cold-he is OK-thanks to a sleeping bag and my body heat. Hypothermia/cold water drowning is real-watch the U-tube video...Wear your PFD's! Wink A few years ago I purchased a great PFD at the end of the year for a decent price and I hardly know I'm wearing it! Carry a rescue rope(throw rope). Lash my gear in the boat. Have run some senario's with the boy...and I only paddle the water that I am OK with...and we surf and quarter and "tach".
  
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BrownTrout01
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Re: Getting wet
Reply #13 - Aug 15th, 2009 at 5:52pm
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I have had a few brief swims in cold river water with and without the proper gear, although I was really glad to have a dump bag with me when paddling in shorts. Diane experienced a gasp reflex and difficulty breathing in cold water with a full wetsuit, rash guard and splash jacket, but head and face exposed.

I would sure hate to face those same water temps for very long in normal tripping clothes. Having a dry change of clothes/ polar-tec etc when you hit shore sounds like a good plan.
  
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solotripper
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Re: Getting wet
Reply #14 - Aug 15th, 2009 at 6:18pm
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BrownTrout01 wrote on Aug 15th, 2009 at 5:52pm:
Diane experienced a gasp reflex and difficulty breathing in cold water with a full wetsuit, rash guard and splash jacket, but head and face exposed.


I think this is a reaction that's often overlooked when discussing survival in cold water or even sudden unexpected dunking in warm water.
You always hear about the "good" swimmer who takes a dunk, and never come up? It's not always in cold water, where one expects the sudden shock and cold.
 I remember being at a pool party and coming up behind a friend of mine who was a Navy trained diver and recreational scuba diver.
I dunked him suddenly underwater, and he got a mouth/nose full of water, and just flipped out! Once he caught himself, he proceeded to let me have it too the point we almost came to blows Shocked
I apologized and left him alone. Later he came up with a peace offering beer, and apologized for over-reacting. He told me that even with his training, the dunk was so un-expected, he panicked for a moment, and what he was REALLY mad at, was himself for temporarily panicking.
I think that's a big plus in wearing your PFD, it gives you better odds of NOT getting that mouth/nose full of water, and having too deal with the gag/panic reflex.
 WE all like too think we won't panic when the chips are down, but in reality, until it happens NONE of us know for sure what we/others will do?
 It's good too discuss subjects like this, awareness is the key to survival.

  
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marlin55388
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Re: Getting wet
Reply #15 - Aug 16th, 2009 at 1:49am
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Expect the unexpected! and be prepared for it!Preparation gets one closer to safety... Solotripper U got it...U really never know what will come out of people in stressfull/panic situations some folks shine like a star that leads them/U/a family member/a dear friend/spouse out of bunko situation some folks crumble and loose their wits...your friend is a big person to acknowledge his temporary loss of wits-I surmise that he grew a ton from the experience of the suprise WinkA PFD closes the door on some of the cold water issues, or a least gives one an opportunity to have more time to solve an issue like a cold water dump, that is why I ALWAYS wear one, no matter what the time of the year. WinkUnderstanding rescue techniques, hypothermia,  and mammalian reflex ( face out of the wind/waves after a dunk in water, dont panic and keep your wits Wink which should B easier to do with preparation) which should be a part of ones understanding IMHO.  But for the life of me I can imagine even attempting a canoe over canoe rescue in surf will gear lashed in Shocked
  
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Mad_Mat
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Re: Getting wet
Reply #16 - Aug 17th, 2009 at 1:13pm
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"What I realized as I was reading this thread is I had the "solution" right behind me the whole trip.  One great find for canoeing gear I made a few years back is a clear vinyl Eureka Cloudburst waterproof backpack (no longer made).  It holds about 2500 cu in, enough for some dry clothes, first aid kit, and other survival equipment.  That pack was always behind the stern seat, clipped to the rear canoe handle.  It is small enough that unclipping it and swimming with it to shore would be no problem.  A lesson learned for future trips."


commonly referred to as a "ditch kit" - numerous threads on Paddling.net cover this.   Almost a requirement for sea kayaking where you might have to abandon your boat and swim to shore.

I'd think it goes without saying that everone should have a set of dry clothes for such an emergency -  I include a microfiber towel in my clothes bag - a quick wipe down and change into dry clothes is probably more effective than staying in your wet clothes and trying to build a big enough fire to warm up at.

  Whenever I am solo I carry a small fanny pack strapped to the back of my PFD - its one of those cheapo fanny packs you get at a XC ski race, or for subscribing to a magazine, which is how I got this one - just a simple zippered nylon pouch that weighs nothing empty - but loaded, it is a survival kit, and includes a space blanket type of sleeping bag, fire starter, etc.

I ain't half as dumb as I sound some times - and sometimes, I like to give an alternative view to a thread - not much point in saying what everyone else is gonna say is there?
  
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marlin55388
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Re: Getting wet
Reply #17 - Aug 17th, 2009 at 2:58pm
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So true Mad Matt!
  
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kypaddler
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Re: Getting wet
Reply #18 - Aug 17th, 2009 at 3:39pm
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hey,

i love "alternative replies" and opinions.

If there's anything I've learned while canoeing, hunting, fishing and hiking with different people over the years, it's that there are a million different ways of doing things -- and each way/method has its share of "disciples."

Lots of good suggestions -- some I already do, some I will do in the future.

Nice to read and learn from y'all.

But Marlin, did you mean to say "can" or "can't": "But for the life of me I CAN imagine even attempting a canoe over canoe rescue in surf will gear lashed in"??

-kypaddler



  
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marlin55388
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Re: Getting wet
Reply #19 - Aug 18th, 2009 at 2:24am
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CAN"T Wink
  
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