db wrote on Jan 18^th, 2010 at 8:22am:


Speaking for myself, I don't like that they want to dictate what sorts of services you have to use to qualify to use Stanton Bay.  I make it a point to always spend some coin locally when I make a canoe trip.  I eat at least one meal pre and post-trip.  I buy souvenirs for my kids.  I usually give into the temptation for a last-minute lure or two.  I used to buy leeches.  Usually in Atikokan I buy lodging.  I fill up the car.

Yet somehow, this just isn't enough.  I need to buy an outfitters services to use a road that I used to be able to freely use.

I make fewer trips out of the northern side of the park than I used to.  I used to go almost exclusively thru Pickerel (Stanton) and Beaverhouse.  Since they made it clear that I'm not really all that welcome to come up that way (unless I do things the way THEY want me to do them), I rarely ever enter the park that way.  Instead, I buy tows across La Croix or up the Moose Chain or go in thru Sag.

The downside for them is that as a park veteran who influences many trips through what I write here and through people I interact with, they have lost my endorsement and thus some business (most likely).  They want to shun me because I don't meet their definition if the ideal tourist yet they fail to account for the fact that I can and do influence people who ARE their ideal tourists, plus they lose all the dollars I would have spent had I gone there.

When people walk into my restaurant I don't demand that they order the most expensive thing on the menu, or demand that they spend XXX dollars or I won't let them in the door (or make them sit at rickety tables if they insist on coming in anyway).  I welcome them in, make sure I give them the best service I can, and thank them for coming when they leave whether they just got a coffee and a cup of soup or they just sprung for the bill for a party of 25 people who were eating and drinking like there's no tomorrow.  They might only spend $4 with me today, but if they like my restuarant they will be back and they will tell other people.  And in the meantime, I'm $4 ahead of where I would have been than if I'd told them to get lost.

Just sayin'! 

Sorry db, you stuck the quarter in me, so there you go.

Well said OS and SD...my feelings are similar....
but in a shorter sense....I don't think they want me to come there and spend my dough.  I get a definate feeling of dislike when I go there...(yes, I'm being somewhat facecious).

For me, I'd go along way to treat my guests and customers better...especially if I had a local economy like Atikokan's.  But heck....I can't whine....They got nothing on the local CrownLands.  Their rules, their lot, and they can play by themselves just fine.

My $$, my vacation, and I can spend it elsewhere just fine too.


Just got back from a trip to the Angle this last week and the anti-Canadian (and anti-US) resentment was overwhelming...resentment towards more rules and bueracracy that do little for security and continue to stiffle buisness and a way of life.

Oh, OK ya I get it. Like the Stanton thread, same experience different take.

I have never associated Atikokan with a canoe trip any more than I would Eau Claire, Duluth, International Falls, Thunder BAy... and some McDonald's on either side of Madison always seems to make my tummy growl. They are just fortuitous places to stop on a means to an end. It will never be the Ely or Fish Creek (WI- during tourist season) of the north at a dozen or so entries per day max capacity. Timber mining....

FWIW - The road to Batch idea was floated a while back too:
(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links) 08/31/05
(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links) 04/09/08

I've not heard much lately but like the restaurant analogy - if it's not too crowded - but that's just me.

Just got back from a trip to the Angle this last week and the anti-Canadian (and anti-US) resentment was overwhelming...resentment towards more rules and bueracracy that do little for security and continue to stiffle buisness and a way of life.

 Never underestimate the Ugly American factor while in Canada.
I reminds me of what you see/hear on the nightly news. Foreigners as a whole love American music/clothes/pop culture, but HATE are foreign policy and the power we still yield as the lone super power, at least for now.
 I've sat in silence in restaurants and listened too Canadians rip our country and it's policy and leaders, yet I've NEVER had any remarks directed at me personally.

I don't like what they say, but I bite my tongue, remind myself that I'm in  another country and THEY have the right to speak their mind as we do here.

Living close to Detroit, I know that millions of dollars in commerce flows across the Ambassador Bridge both ways everyday. The Canadians are not too happy with our ever changing security rules. I think many here would agree that coming or going across the border, the AMERICAN customs are the one's who give you the most problems on average. Anyone who travels knows that they screen little old people with artificial hips/joints with the same vigor they screen young males/females of countries that have a track record in terrorism. The latest Nigerian bomber is a perfect example of PC and incompetence going hand in hand.

I understand how people feel when they're made too feel unwanted, especially when your spending your hard earned money. I also know that there probably getting some of the resentment some of our trade policies generate, warranted or not.

Try as we might, I don't believe your ever going to have policies that both bordering countries and trade partners will agree are balanced evenly.

When we had the Mad Cow scare awhile back, we banned imported beef, which western Canada is a major supplier of to the US. Even though the Canadians have a very rigid inspection program and went above and beyond to make sure their beef was safe.

They thought we over-reacted and the decision was driven by the American beef industry lobbyist's who saw a chance to eliminate the competition for awhile.

The Canadians are not to happy with our Lumber trade policy's either.
Not taking sides, but many Americans assume that the Canadians are good with whatever WE decide is fair?

The post about the guy who had to be told he was in CANADA not the US illustrates my point.  Rational or not, many Canadians think/see the US treating them as sort of a American protectorate like Puerto Rico, not the sovereign nation they are.

I don't blame anyone for feeling the way they do, IF they receive poor treatment or service. SD is right, you should treat the big spenders the same as the small ones. I just hope people would remember that you are going to a foreign country, and that you should judge on a individual basis. Give them a chance to do the right thing, if they don't, then it's THEIR loss and the American outfitters gain.

wally wrote on Jan 19^th, 2010 at 3:48am:


db wrote on Jan 19^th, 2010 at 7:37am:


wally wrote on Jan 19^th, 2010 at 12:49pm:


I'll tell you, these outfitters are sitting on a gold mine but for the most part they don't seem to have the sense to take advantage of it.  Not only do they "control" some of the easiest-access routes to get deep into Quetico, but they also have the White Otter Wilderness just to the north and plenty of Crown Land possibilities elsewhere. 

The Seine River, for example, has always struck me as a potentially awesome canoe route but if I ever want to plan a trip to canoe it, it will be on me to dig up the information that I need.  If those outfitters wanted to expand their business, they'd be busy digging up all sorts of information on the Seine and the White Otter Wilderness and making it widely available...you know...promoting the possible trips and highlighting the scenery and fishing opportunities.  I'm sure there's some spectacular falls and rapids in the Atikokan area, probably some pictographs, certainly a castle, and who knows what else worth seeing.

Contrast how the typical Ely outfitter goes about attracting business to how the typical Atikokan outfitter behaves: 

The typical Ely outfitter attends a bunch of sport shows all winter long.  They freely talk about possible canoe routes and extoll their virtues.  Their websites are visually attractive and informative.  They welcome any type of business they can get, whether it be merely a tow up the Moose Chain, a bunkhouse the night before, just renting a canoe and nothing else, or whatever.  They market both their own business and the area they serve.  They are constanly working to make the BWCA and Q (to whatever extent they can influence policy there) more attractive to visitors.

The typical Atikokan outfitter attends few if any sports shows.  They are (in my experience) very much more tight-lipped about releasing any information about Quetico until you've put down a deposit and forget even discusssing White Otter.  If they even have a website, it's usually a pretty minimalist affair.  Marketing is a four-letter word to them.  They sit at home and grumble about Americans and their foreign policies and about the dam* Ely outfitters "stealing" their business instead of making an attempt to encourage canoeists to come on around and sample the fabulous resource they are sitting on top of.

Frankly, it's semi-amazing to me that so many more people enter the Q through Prairie Portage than through Nym, Beaverhouse, or Pickerel.  If you want to get deep in the Q with minimal effort, there's no easier way than through the northern entries.  You are 3 portages away from Jean Lake from Beaverhouse.  You are 3 portages away from Russell Lake or anywhere you care to go on Sturgeon Lake from Stanton Bay.  From French Lake you can take a 10-day canoe trip without taking a single portage and still not run out of things to see and do.  You want to go through PP, you are about 7-12 portages from most of the southern fringe of central Q lakes (such as Sarah, Robinson, Tuck, Kashahpiwi).  It's a hard day's travel to get to quality fishing/wilderness in the Q from Ely and it's a piece of cake from Atikokan.

I guess my point is, it's a whole lot easier to sit and whine about being disadvantaged and to petition the government to step in and legislate "fairness" instead of taking on the challenge yourself and reaping the rewards.  No doubt it would be difficult and slow going at first.  You'd need the help of some "early adopters"...people who likely have their own equipment and just need knowledge or maybe a night's lodging.  Initially, it would be a lot of work for very little reward.  Persevere, though, and you could own the biggest slice of a growing pie instead of just trying to keep other outfitters from stealing any tiny bits of a shrinking pie.

I understand there are exceptions to everything I've written here.  I have heard many good things about Canoe Canada.  Quetico Dave is a nice guy who will bend over backwards to please.  But nobody up there is taking full advantage of the gold mine at their front and back doors.