25 Barbs in your tackle box? (Read 15220 times)
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Re: Barbs in your tackle box?
Reply #20 - Jun 25th, 2010 at 7:44am
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From the master plan as stated in 1995:
"To preserve Quetico Provincial Park, which contains a natural environment of recreational and historical significance, in perpetuity for the people of Ontario as an area of wilderness that is not adversely affected by human activities".

Was there some sort of treaty re the Quetico Superior area in 1928 or was that just a gentleman's agreement?
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Where does this electronics ban myth come from btw? That's crazy talk. My imagination says logging would have a better chance than an electronics ban. Or is that simply intended simply to rabble-rouse as well? The cost and hoops of 4 otherwise useless passports was the straw that killed my last friends and family group trip plans. It came up late in the process and was a definite deal breaker. I assumed they knew.
  
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wally
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Re: Barbs in your tackle box?
Reply #21 - Jun 25th, 2010 at 8:12pm
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all myths in this thread are clearly labeled as "opinion"
  
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Joe_Schmeaux
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Re: Barbs in your tackle box?
Reply #22 - Jun 25th, 2010 at 11:09pm
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I'm 100% on the same page as Preacher, at least for his first few posts in this thread on conservation, barbless hooks, live bait, and electronics.

But I have to disagree with a couple of the statements in solotripper's last note, and not ... umm ... let him off the hook like Preacher did.

First and foremost, a $4 discount for outfitter permits is a subsidy, plain and simple, paid for by the taxpayers of Ontario. Canada has way too many handouts to special interest groups, and I can't let this get by without objection.

Yes, outfitters work hard at trying to make an honest living in an economically challenging business, but so do lots of other Canadians - should we give handouts to them all? Then who pays? I know I don't need to quote Karl Marx here, but I will anyway: "To each according to his need, from each according to his ability." We know how well that system works. Sorry, I'm starting to sound like Ayn Rand here. I'm not quite that right-wing on economic matters.

If you really agree with the position that parks should be for everyone, not just the rich, then you should support the budget-conscious visitors who buy or borrow a cheap canoe, tent, and sleeping bag, pack their own food, and do not spend any money on outfitters at all. I started out this way, and to all the other students, scout troops, church groups, and taxed-to-death Apu's taking a week off from the QuikkiMart, my only comment is "have a great trip".

Finally, what Canada's treaty Indians and Metis are allowed to do regarding live bait, motorized transport, and the like has nothing to do with conservation or Provincial park plans. This is handled at the federal level by the Department of Indian Affairs, but I feel my blood pressure starting to rise to the danger level again, so I will cut this rant off here and just say the issues are "complicated".
  
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solotripper
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Re: Barbs in your tackle box?
Reply #23 - Jun 28th, 2010 at 7:55pm
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Quote:
First and foremost, a $4 discount for outfitter permits is a subsidy, plain and simple, paid for by the taxpayers of Ontario. Canada has way too many handouts to special interest groups, and I can't let this get by without objection.


I know Preacher is a Canadian, and I'm assuming from your blood pressure raising response too my comments, you are as well Wink

I know from talking to Q Dave and other Canadians I've met over the years, that those high tax rates you pay and the subsidies/handouts you mention are a source of anger/outrage by many of you.

Many here in the US, can sympathize! I know I do.
I'm guessing that your form of government, like ours will never eliminate them entirely.  I like too see my taxpayer subsidies go too groups that need a little help now and then, pay their taxes, work hard everyday, and contribute more than they take overall.

IF anyone deserves a little help, it's the little guys like the outfitters who are citizens and not the legal/illegal immigrants, many of them who take more than they contribute and plague your social system like they do ours. I know, it's not a PC thing too say out loud, but the figures don't lie Sad  That $4 for the outfitters I mentioned works as a multiplier when it's spent in the local economy, a good investment in my book.

I've never had a conversation with a Canadian that when the subject came up, they didn't express anger to how generous your social system is too new immigrants.  

I'm of the opinion we/you should take care of our own, before we take on the plights of others.

My comment about the Native tribes use of live bait has nothing to do with whether it's their treaty rights or what agency handles it.
But if banning live bait, even bait obtained in waters outside the park but connected too it by innumerable small streams and no-name lakes is a biological necessity, then what's the point of it, if the Natives can bring in such bait?

Q-Dave had a leech/minnow supply from a little area behind his camp on Warner Lk. I find it hard too believe that his minnows/leeches were biologically different enough to pose a threat to the Q Eco-system?
Maybe those damn aggressive Ugly American leeches but surely not the local ones, served by the same watershed?

   I know people who don't like the wilderness who consider tax dollars spent on outdoor projects, unfair subsidies, since they don't see the need or use the resource.I started backpacking/canoeing on my own, with minimal if any outfitter contact. I use one now because I'd rather not leave my vehicle un-attended for that long, and frankly, I enjoy the rapport and knowing I've put some of my vacation money into the hands of someone who works as hard for his, as I do mine.




  
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Preacher
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Re: Barbs in your tackle box?
Reply #24 - Jun 28th, 2010 at 8:14pm
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solotripper wrote on Jun 28th, 2010 at 7:55pm:
Quote:
First and foremost, a $4 discount for outfitter permits is a subsidy, plain and simple, paid for by the taxpayers of Ontario. Canada has way too many handouts to special interest groups, and I can't let this get by without objection.


I know Preacher is a Canadian, and I'm assuming from your blood pressure raising response too my comments, you are as well Wink

I know from talking to Q Dave and other Canadians I've met over the years, that those high tax rates you pay and the subsidies/handouts you mention are a source of anger/outrage by many of you.

Many here in the US, can sympathize! I know I do.
I'm guessing that your form of government, like ours will never eliminate them entirely.  I like too see my taxpayer subsidies go too groups that need a little help now and then, pay their taxes, work hard everyday, and contribute more than they take overall.

IF anyone deserves a little help, it's the little guys like the outfitters who are citizens and not the legal/illegal immigrants, many of them who take more than they contribute and plague your social system like they do ours. I know, it's not a PC thing too say out loud, but the figures don't lie Sad  That $4 for the outfitters I mentioned works as a multiplier when it's spent in the local economy, a good investment in my book.

I've never had a conversation with a Canadian that when the subject came up, they didn't express anger to how generous your social system is too new immigrants.  

I'm of the opinion we/you should take care of our own, before we take on the plights of others.





This has nothing to do with the topic at hand.  Yes I too think the gov should spend money where I think they should spend money and I'll go further to say that the gov shouldn't spend money where I think they shouldn't spend money.
Roll Eyes

All this over a barb on a hook?  Learn how to fish.  Make it sporting.  It is called sport-fishing isn't it?   Wink
  
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wally
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Re: Barbs in your tackle box?
Reply #25 - Jun 29th, 2010 at 5:34am
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"Fair" preacher would be you diving in and grabbing them.
  
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Joe_Schmeaux
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Re: Barbs in your tackle box?
Reply #26 - Jun 30th, 2010 at 1:20am
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Actually, it wasn't the new immigrants that caused the blood pressure rise - my experience is that 99%+ of all new immigrants to Canada work their tails off to make a life better than wherever they came from. They get nothing in subsidies, they just pay. As the son of immigrants who arrived in Canada after the war with nothing, I have never forgotten where my head start in life came from.

But I am surprised to see the regs on these boards so unhappy about rules that make catching fish harder. From what I've read on QJ, you guys never have trouble catching lots of fish, and lots of big ones. Shouldn't it be the ones with minimal fishing skills (like me) griping about barbless hooks and worms and similar?
  
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Westwood
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Re: Barbs in your tackle box?
Reply #27 - Jun 30th, 2010 at 3:26am
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Why do people complain.  Because it is easier to complain than to make a constructive comment.  Sure, Quetico is more expensive than the BWCA, as the saying goes, you get what you pay for.  Now I do have to say that I haven't been in the BWCA for about 20 years so my memory of the BWCA may not be valid today.  I only enter Quetico from the north.  I view paying higher fees for Quetico as a way of supporting provincial parks.  I don't think it so much that Quetico is over priced , but that the BWCA is underpriced and subsidized by taxpayers.  My 7 or 9 day trip to Quetico is a lot less expensive than my winter vacation and more enjoyable than my winter vacation.  But my winter vacation keeps my wife happy.

Westwood
  
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DentonDoc
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Re: Barbs in your tackle box?
Reply #28 - Jun 30th, 2010 at 5:11am
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Joe_Schmeaux wrote on Jun 30th, 2010 at 1:20am:
But I am surprised to see the regs on these boards so unhappy about rules that make catching fish harder. From what I've read on QJ, you guys never have trouble catching lots of fish, and lots of big ones. Shouldn't it be the ones with minimal fishing skills (like me) griping about barbless hooks and worms and similar?

And then there are those of us who don't have any problem with it.  After all, it is call FISHING not CATCHING.  I've always prefered to "do battle" with the fish where the fish as a good chance of gaining an upper hand.  I suppose that is why I don't get any real pleasure in fishing in southern waters for largemouth bass where you select a line weight to insure you can muscle the fish out of his lair.  The only chance he's got is to quickly wrap you up on some submerged structure.  

BTW:  I only took in live bait once before it was banned, even then it was barely used.  Then, as now, I'm still looking for that favorite artificial lure that will kick it with the local fish population.

dd
  
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db
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Re: Barbs in your tackle box?
Reply #29 - Jun 30th, 2010 at 5:20am
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Joe_Schmeaux wrote on Jun 30th, 2010 at 1:20am:
But I am surprised to see the regs on these boards so unhappy about rules that make catching fish harder. From what I've read on QJ, you guys never have trouble catching lots of fish, and lots of big ones. Shouldn't it be the ones with minimal fishing skills (like me) griping about barbless hooks and worms and similar?

Actually, over the years here the barbless idea was originally hated but has pretty much become embraced and even extended to other places by those who normally use artificials. Live bait, slip-bobber aficionados? Well there's the rub, a problem I can understand all to well. First off it's a different type of fishing. That's why I asked about Gulp and slip-bobbers. Even if it produced as well, the challenge of keeping bait alive has become a useless art for Q fishermen & women.
  
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