Preacher wrote on Aug 13^th, 2010 at 5:33pm:

I've been traveling with bear spray for at least 20 years now.  I started when backpacking in griz country, but decided to carry it as well when in black bear territory.  It is on my fanny (survival) pack belt and stays with me all day.  At night, it joins me in the tent (the model I use has a fluorescent safety clip ... easy to spot in the dark).

I never leave home without it (if I'm going to be in bear country).  In fact, I've shipped it ahead (along with stoves and the like) when I'm flying to an outdoor destination ... mostly to an outfitter or place where I'll be staying ... I've even shipped it to a nearby REI on occasion when I was going to hit the ground running upon arrival.

But the good news is ... I've never had to use it (but I'd highly recommend you try to get the wind to your back before hosing away).

dd

Joe,
Much of what you say is only 1/2 correct which in my book makes it incorrect. Let's start with your assertion that Grizzlies kill far more people than black bears. Bunk. It is fairly even and this includes the Canadian Rockies and Alaska with their high brown bear populations.
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Click on the statistics and you get the names and places as well as descriptions of activities.

That only old and weak black bears see people as food....again bunk. Many attacks are young bears.

The correct response to a Grizzly attack depends on the situation. You have described the classic "momma protecting her cubs" or "protecting  a food source" response. But if you lay down on a bear that is stalking you  .........You must determine the situation and formulate the correct response.

To suggest that triple ziplock sealing your odorous foods is pointless is just plain silly. Any airtight odor control is going to be highly beneficial in preventing interest from bears whose world revolves around their nose. If they can't smell it they usually don't find it. The exception of course is where they have gotten food before like a garbage can or the only good tree in camp to hang your food.

I suppose to the uncountable vast majority of people who enter the woods without bear spray and have never had a reason to need it find it easy to dismiss the potential need. I would question the people who have had to pull it out to avoid a possible mauling and find out their opinion.

Yes Joe, I am much more concerned when traveling through Grizzly country than black bear country but I wouldn't take any bear lightly. Knowledge is the key.

I suggest you re-read Mr. Herrereo's book as it seems you have forgotten a great deal of it.

OUCH! OK, I was a little tough on you   but I have noticed if you speak with conviction on this site you better know what you're talking about.  

mt,

Yes, if you speak with conviction on this site, you had better know what you are talking about. And I did pull Stephen Herrero's book off the shelf before posting, not only to check my facts but also to make sure I spelled his name correctly.

Re number of grizzly vs black bear attacks. Based on your link, I count 40 brown vs 30 black bear fatal attacks starting with the 1970's. Herrero used a ratio of 2:1 (brown to black) in the first edition of his book. I am more comfortable with my choice of words ("many more") than I would be with yours ("approximately equal"). You are hardly being generous including the Canadian Rockies and Alaska in the stats, since that is where most browns and grizzlies live.

Re "only old and weak black bears see people as food" I did not say that.

Re "the correct response to a grizzly response depends on the situation". The first thing you do is determine whether your attacker is a black bear or a grizzly. If it is a grizzly, it is probably not attacking you for food (I thought we agreed on that), and you should play dead. If it is a black bear (and not an obvious mother-with-cubs situation), then there is a high likelihood that you are being seen as a meal and you should fight back. This is what Herrero said in '85, and what everyone here in the Canadian Rockies believes today. Does the latest edition of Herrero's book contain different recommendations?

The triple-ziplocking-is-useless claim came from personal experience. I have seen a (black) bear sift through a food pack to pull out a triple-ziplocked pack of Nanaimo bars, ignoring all the dehydrated stuff packed alongside it. The takeaway here is don't bring odiferous foods into bear country at all. I will reiterate: triple-ziplocking is futile for animals who live by their noses.

Finally, I also stand by my claim that bear spray is probably unnecessary in canoe country. Your Wikipedia link lists zero fatal bear attacks in BW/Q and surrounding areas (ie all Minnesota, plus anywhere in the area of Thunder Bay - Kenora - WCPP etc.) for the time covered by their table (maybe 40 years of good data). I'm not saying it could never happen (there were two fatal attacks listed for Algonquin), but I am saying that since there are something like 100,000 camper-nights spent each year in Q alone, the chance of getting attacked by a bear in BW/Q appears to have a very, very low probability.

Everyone has the right to make their own decisions on which risks to accept in their lives and which ones to actively mitigate. Here is a link that might put your estimate of the chance of dying of a black bear attack in BW/Q in perspective, and help you decide whether to take the bear spray or the Chablis:

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So mt, I stand firmly behind everything I wrote in my initial post, and you will have to be much tougher than that to penetrate this thick hide!

Joe,
Not to beat a dead horse but there was one other item I should make mention of. Check out my blog and look for the Algonquin trip. I relate what is a rather amusing story (now, not then) of being laid siege by a bear on a rainy night with the tarp dumping a gallon of water every 20 minutes on the side of the tent (a surprisingly good imitation of a bear wanting in). The adrenaline was screaming through our bodies and the only release was fits of laughter that was so intense my stomach was in knots.....
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What I don't think I mentioned was hearing the bear snuffling by the side of my arm only inches from me with only the tent fabric between us. That is the first time the hair on my arms and the back of my neck has ever come up. So I am totally with you on no food in the tent. I think if I had even an empty snickers candy bar wrapper in there things may have turned out different.

Bear Encounter Learnings: (nice word) from both personal and trusted accounts from fellow travelers.  My limited experience.


(trusted account) Sawbill Area
It took a bear about 20 minutes to open up a sealed BEAR barrel. It recognized it and made a beeline  right for it.  I did see the photos from this all girl adventure.  This group has several years of wilderness paddle experience.

(trusted account) LLC
It took a bear about 30 minutes to bring down a PROPERLY hanged pack.
It climbed a tree 20 feet higher than the pack and swan dived directly onto it.   When it missed/fell it climbed and did it again until the pack was down.  All the time this grouped taunted and tried to run the bear off.  Another well seasoned group.  This bear was destroyed.

When it was eating from the pack it  merely wiped the pepper spray from its eyes and snorted  a bit.  It sat right where it brought the pack down, it did not drag it off. The guy discharged an entire can of counter assault into the bears face.

I have always carried counter assault, supposedly it will stop an "attacking" bear.  

AI
Two bear visitors were detered by  LOUD noise. An air horn and paint ball gun(not really that loud), made them leave town this summer on my trip.  I had neither, but I was able to get some rangers into camp.   I borrowed the airhorn to stay overnight but bears never returned.  I had an encounter two years before in this spot and had enough daylight left to leave, and would'nt have stopped this year if I had known there were again bear issues.


From now on I'm going to carry in bear country. I always disdained it, mainly because of weight and hassle.   After seeing the effect LOUD noise had on two bears that could'nt give a shit about whistles, hollering, banging, jumping up and down etc etc, I'm convinced of the usefulness.
While sidearms are legal, (not in Canada),  loud fireworks are not, I would consider something like M80's if they were.  

I do not have near the paddle travel mileage some folks here do, and have only seen bears 4 times. I have never paddled in grizzly bear country.   But I think a powerful noise maker is now worth the portage effort, even in black bear country.  It can double as a signal device.

I would try to avoid an area if it's known to have Bear issues.