25 Climbing methods in Canoe country (Read 18366 times)
mastertangler
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Re: Climbing methods in Canoe country
Reply #20 - Mar 31st, 2011 at 2:46am
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Your a cat of a different stripe Kerry, no creds needed.......but hey impressive nontheless. I didn't know you could get a phd in "consciousness studies". You understand of course there are those here that can have a field day with that info Wink.

I hadn't intended to create such a stir. All I know is that it works for me and is common practice amongst world class mountaineers. No comments on the equally valuable step-breath-step-breath method. When I get to the top of the hill I'm not out of breath or sweaty or tired in the least............. (of course you've already had lunch and taken a nap waiting for me at the top of the hill while I ascend.  Grin ).

All kidding aside, I take pride in its employment as it does take some discipline. You can practice the move on some steps. If your tired and hit a big hill this will get you to the top quite comfortably thank you very much.
  
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Wally13
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Re: Climbing methods in Canoe country
Reply #21 - Mar 31st, 2011 at 1:44pm
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MT- I am going to give your breathing method a try this June on the very steep up hill portage from McAree to Pond/Gratton.

I had a highschool basketball coach back in the 70's tell our team to breath through our noses and take deeper breaths from the diaphragm area for peak efficiency. Of course, we were all mainly mouthbreathers ... we all thought he was nuts... but he must have been ahead of his time.

  
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MuleLars
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Re: Climbing methods in Canoe country
Reply #22 - Mar 31st, 2011 at 1:52pm
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IF he can learn do re-set his breathing all the time, he'll feel the difference and the benefits no matter what activity he's pursuing. Even one's that his significant other might enjoy Huh
Women like men with ENDURANCE Wink


Smiley  Roll Eyes
  
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solotripper
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Re: Climbing methods in Canoe country
Reply #23 - Mar 31st, 2011 at 3:16pm
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I didn't know you could get a phd in "consciousness studies". You understand of course there are those here that can have a field day with that info .


Ya, but with his PHD, he can talk the talk and with 25 years of martial arts behind him, he's proficient in "unconsciousness studies" Grin

Hopefully we've enlightened some and encouraged others.
If you look at the links, you see that these are degreed Professionals in their field of expertise who are making these statements, I don't see there's much room for disagreement. It's not an idea that opinion based, it's based on studies of the human body. I guess you can choose not to believe the experts but why would you Huh

If your into exercising or even if your not and don't breath primarily thru your nose, give it a try and see for yourselves. You have nothing to lose, and maybe something to gain Wink
  
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mastertangler
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Re: Climbing methods in Canoe country
Reply #24 - Mar 31st, 2011 at 3:57pm
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MT- I am going to give your breathing method a try this June on the very steep up hill portage from McAree to Pond/Gratton.



If you are in good shape you can really roll with this breathing method. Straight up the hill and never change speeds.

If you are less than in really good shape I highly suggest the step breath method. That's the "real" trick. It is how you get to the top of Everest.

I also employ this method when it is wet out. I tend to be very sure footed off trail but yet I slow right down when it's wet, especially uphill.

Just TRY it! Try it for 5 minutes going up a steep hill. You will make more progress faster than you think and you will never even be slightly out of breath. Better control=safety......another consideration. Plus, as I have said before I don't burn out. Up the hill slow and I can run all day and late into the evening, no problem.
  
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Kingfisher
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Re: Climbing methods in Canoe country
Reply #25 - Mar 31st, 2011 at 9:15pm
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Are all you nose breathing advocates seriously thinking that one could run a mile at a faster pace by not opening their mouth. I am very skeptical.
Since this issue was raised several posts ago I have been giving the nose breathing a shot during my daily workouts. First thing I noticed right away was that I was starved for oxygen exercising at my normal intesity and only by slowing way down could I even consider keeping my mouth closed. Perhaps I train at too high an intensity?
Running is part of my regimen and I am quite sure that I could not run my best race without breathing through my mouth and nose. Long ago I learned the secret of full diaphragm breathing with running or any other highly aerobic exercise but this nose intake breathing really throws me. If I were to get serious about it like some here and in the links have advocated I would need to take a huge step backward in my training.
I could envision some merit to nose breathing during low intensity or anaerobic exercise like weightlifting.
Lance Armstrong is a certified freak of nature. What he is able to do does not apply to almost anyone else.
My workouts incorporate occasional sessions that are designed to bring me to exhaustion - the point where I am literally sucking air and ready to puke. It's a place mentally and physically that I choose to visit so that when it happens out in the real world whether racing or doing one too many portages I am prepared for it and understand how my body will react and when it will shut down. I absolutely don't want to visit that exhausted state for the first time far from any medical help because my body may not just shutdown, it may shut off!
I will continue to experiment with the nose breathing but I still am very skeptical.
  
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Kerry
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Re: Climbing methods in Canoe country
Reply #26 - Mar 31st, 2011 at 9:42pm
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In response to Kingfisher's skepticism.  It's important to keep in mind what the goal or goals are in breathing because they would be somewhat different for someone doing yoga or a meditator as opposed to someone engaged in intense aerobic exercise.  I also do a regimen of intense aerobic exercise (not to the puking stage mind you) and would agree that nose breathing is probably not going to happen when you get at or near the wall.  But with regards to intense aerobics the main issue is oxygen exchange.  So the key there is to be doing deep diaphram breathing (which means breathing like a baby where one's belly is working like a bellows.)  Contrast that to how most of us, especially men have been taught to breathe.  Like in the army we suck in our gut and stick out our chest.  That guarentees a shallow breath (just the upper part of the lungs) and minimum oxygen exchange.  When it gets to the short strokes I don't think it much matters whether you're breathing through your mouth, nose or ears.  What matters is breathe control and the extent of oxygen exchange.  At that point the critical issue is the depth of the breath which means maintaining deep diaphram breathing especially as we become more and more fatigued.  Since deep diaphram breathing is how we're born to breathe it is not something we have to learn but rather re-learn.  Once we get the rhythm of it and practice it a bit it becomes second nature not only in intense activities but in every thing we do.
Now just so I'm clear - I am right and I'll definitely put a hurt on anyone who says otherwise!  Now hit the floor and give me 20!
  
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mastertangler
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Re: Climbing methods in Canoe country
Reply #27 - Apr 1st, 2011 at 12:15am
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Kingfisher wrote on Mar 31st, 2011 at 9:15pm:
Are all you nose breathing advocates seriously thinking that one could run a mile at a faster pace by not opening their mouth. I am very skeptical.
I will continue to experiment with the nose breathing but I still am very skeptical.


While I am in decent shape I am in no way qualified to instruct anyone who is as superbly fit as KF seems to be. But rather, since I was the originator of the post, I would seek to clarify only lest what I advocate be misconstrued and thus be misunderstood.

What has worked for me and countless thousands of climbers is called "pressure breathing". Essentially it is breathing in through the nose and pursing the lips and exhaling forcefully through the mouth. You are doing it right when it is accompanied by a swooshing sound. It is fine in theory that pursing your lips while forcefully exhaling through your mouth creates some sort of back pressure. I am dubious of that. What I do know is that it expels a lot of spent air in a hurry and from way down deep. In comes another draft through my nose, I pause a second or so to let it provide the benefit and then it is forcefully removed through the mouth.

It is in fact when I feel starved for O2 and I'm workin hard that I employ this and it usually sets the ship right.

The step method I advocate for special usage is called the "rest step". It is common climbing methodology. If you are the investigative sort google "pressure breathing" or "rest step" to get the skinny on both of these potentially useful methods. 
  
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solotripper
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Re: Climbing methods in Canoe country
Reply #28 - Apr 4th, 2011 at 3:44pm
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Running is part of my regimen and I am quite sure that I could not run my best race without breathing through my mouth and nose


I talked with a good friend of mine from CA last week and about this very subject. He's now a Chinese Acupuncturist/Herbalist having completed a 4 year program and now state licensed in CA which is no easy task.
He also holds a Masters in Exercise science and before his career change, he presented and fitness workshops thru ACE and other credited fitness providers. He has workshop certificates out the whazoo for everything from weight training to running gait analysis as well as for body work techniques. He also was one hell of a aerobic teacher/fitness trainer.

I knew he would be interested about our breathing discussion.  He told me that at a certain level of intensity, you will need to mouth breath as well as continue to nose breath to get as much oxygen as you can into you lungs to starve off the build-up of lactic acid as long as possible. It's a involuntary response that you can't control as your body is " gasping" for oxygen as your pushing to and beyond your aerobic thresh hold. The longer you can breath thru your nose and exercise intensely the better off you'll be and the longer it will take to for your body to demand you start the intense mouth breathing  that will come eventually.

Excessing in intense bursts or at a high level for as long as you can is one of those examples.  KF must be very fit, as mainly elite athletes can do it and recover and go again. Once your at a certain aerobic fitness level, you need to push beyond what would be prudent for the "average" person to see any real gains. My friend has worked with some high level athletes and what they do to be the best the average person could do or would any gym allow it's personal trainers do for their customers for fear of liability lawsuits in event of injury or death.

It's not really a either/or proposition. You should breath thru you nose and the links that talk about why in regards to running, do tell you that you might " backslide" at first, bu that eventually you'll rebound and be better for it. All out intense workouts till " total exhaustion/puking" are special cases.  
  
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solotripper
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Re: Climbing methods in Canoe country
Reply #29 - Apr 4th, 2011 at 3:53pm
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KF,

Here's a link that you might find useful/informative ?
It mentions your body having to re-adapt at first but that it will and you'll achieve a long term gain overall.

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