25 Climbing methods in Canoe country (Read 18398 times)
DentonDoc
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Re: Climbing methods in Canoe country
Reply #30 - Apr 4th, 2011 at 5:10pm
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I feel sure there are physiological benefits from breathing techniques (and I naturally adopted the nose/mouth pattern while hiking the Rockies).  In fact, I started to develop these techniques 50 years ago while playing varsity sports, specifically basketball.  I was gauged as the most "fit" person on the team and anytime the team went to the "box and 1" zone, I got to be the chaser. 

The earliest acknowledgement of the fact that I was doing something different came from by team mates when they hung the nick name "smiley" on me.  I achieved this moniker because soon after wind sprint drills began, I started smiling.  (I can only guess that opposing team members thought of this behavior, but I'm guessing they were depressed by it.)  In any case, what I found by experience is that when I smiled (which also takes less energy than frowning) that facial configuration tended to significantly open the airway.

During games, I refused to take a seat during time-outs because I wanted to be able to fully extend my diaphragm and thus recover more quickly.  (I also suspect that lactic acid buildup in your leg muscles is diminished more quickly with the better circulation standing is likely to afford.)

However, all of this being said, I also think there is a probable psychological component to some of this.  While executing a specific breathing pattern, it is likely that at least some of your mental attention is drawn from your level of fatigue and focused on your breathing.  One personal benefit of knowing this is that when hill climbing, I'll take a quick look up to confirm the trail direction.  However, there after I never look more than 20 feet ahead.  Its amazing that I'll reach the top much less fatigued than if I watch my progress up the hill the entire journey.  To some degree, portaging a canoe up hill produces this result since you'd likely need to at least tilt the canoe upward to see the top of the hill.

Anyone else have a similar experience?

dd
  
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solotripper
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Re: Climbing methods in Canoe country
Reply #31 - Apr 4th, 2011 at 5:35pm
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Its amazing that I'll reach the top much less fatigued than if I watch my progress up the hill the entire journey.


My Exercise friend I mentioned employed a tactic that took this Psychological component you mentioned into effect in his aerobic/weighted workout classes he taught. I don't know if there is a name for it, but I do the same thing when hiking a steep hill. I look once for the top, then like you I watch the trail immediately in front. It does make a big difference. I'll ask him if there's a name for this or it's just something he picked up along the way.

In his combo classes we would do aerobics and then some resistance exercises afterward, using dumbbells or just body weight. He would be talking about proper form while counting reps to himself. After a count of 8, he would start counting down the reps, starting at the top and going down. Counting down seems " easier" than counting  up, so people hang in longer knowing they just have to do a few more reps Wink
I asked why he didn't just count to 16 or whatever number he wanted us to do? He said that it was a mental thing. Especially when your tired or theres a long term physical/mental effort needed. Even though we were doing 2x the reps he counted, it " felt" like we were only doing 8 reps, a big difference after a hard class. Same with climbing a long steep grade.

It has the mental effect of stressing your body in anticipation of the effort you'll need to accomplish the task. Same if your looking down a long stretch of lake on a paddling trip. Sometimes you think you'll never get there. I just concentrate on looking at my immediate surroundings and find that you get to your goal sooner than you thought initially and with much less fatigue.
  
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Mad_Mat
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Re: Climbing methods in Canoe country
Reply #32 - Apr 4th, 2011 at 5:59pm
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"I also think there is a probable psychological component to some of this."



I'm sure that there is a psycho component to most of this thread, and most of the other threads on here as well, but I don't let that worry me too much since I've never posted a picture of me on here! and youse guys dont' know where I live  !!!!!!!!!!


and just to keep on topic, I went on a climbing trip Saturday  (4/2)- packed light since I made the other 3 carry the ropes and my pack only weighed 40lbs or so.  Moderate approach, from 8100' to 8800' el. in a bit over a quarter mile on the map, more like 1/3 mile on the ground.  I tried that "in thru the nose bit" - didn't work, even at the modest uphill pace I was going at - just can't get enough Os.  I've tried the in thru the nose out the mouth bit X/C skiing as well (at a hard pace) in very cold weather - didn't work for that either.    I wonder if its more a method for pacing yourself slowly ? i.e. if you can do this, then you are moving at a pace that isn't consuming more oxygen than you are taking in, and to go faster is too much work?
  
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Re: Climbing methods in Canoe country
Reply #33 - Apr 4th, 2011 at 6:22pm
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Hey Mat

I noticed that Alpine Ascents are booked solid this summer for Mt. Rainier climbs. Waiting list only. I'm starting to get the itch. Looks like a guy might have to book a year out.

Today I did about 17 miles on the bike and ran into a very nasty headwind on the way back. At first I was a little bummed but realized I was training and this was exactly what I needed so I got my act together. In through the nose and heavy quick exhalations through the mouth the whole way back more or less. I was actually able to increase my pace to the point I was grinning and liking it.

I can't help but wonder if your exhalations are aggressive enough. Are you making the swooshing noise? Emptying the air from down deep very quickly?

It's just not for slowpokes. I like to roll on occasion and I don't generally pressure breathe on a rest step or a slow pace. Only when I'm working hard. When you sound like a choo-choo train your doing it right. Straight up the side without stopping................
  
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Re: Climbing methods in Canoe country
Reply #34 - Apr 4th, 2011 at 7:13pm
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Mad_Mat wrote on Apr 4th, 2011 at 5:59pm:
"I also think there is a probable psychological component to some of this."



I'm sure that there is a psycho component to most of this thread, and most of the other threads on here as well, but I don't let that worry me too much since I've never posted a picture of me on here! and youse guys dont' know where I live  !!!!!!!!!


You can rest easy Mat.......We only go after those that owe us money or maybe someone that has dishonored one of the ladies in the family. But if we wanted to find you it would only take about 3 hours. We usually send Wally on such errands (*note "Uncle Wally's" Avatar if you have any doubts)
  
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Re: Climbing methods in Canoe country
Reply #35 - Apr 4th, 2011 at 8:47pm
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Just for kicks I had a few of my boys look you up. In less than 3 hours we have found some interesting things about you "Mat". Originally I had naturally assumed that Mat was short for Matthew but that's not the case at all is it Matilda?.............. Who lives just outside of Boulder Colorado.

Don't get nervous.......like I said we're only interested in those we do business with.

  
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Re: Climbing methods in Canoe country
Reply #36 - Apr 4th, 2011 at 8:50pm
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Quote:
We usually send Wally on such errands


And HE said that Evil Black rifle was just for Prairie Dogs Grin

If you read the links I posted about nose breathing during strenuous exercise and running, they explain why a mouth breather will feel a decline in performance at first when learning to breath again from the nose predominately.
Under heavy enough exertion or when your at or past your aerobic thresh-hold, you'll start mouth breathing whether you want to or not.
We start out as babies breathing thru our noses, somewhere along the way, most lose some or all of the ability. Re-learning something that comes so natural as a child after years of doing it differently is no easy task.
Your normal pace as a mouth breather may drop off, but you should see a increase in stamina/distance albeit at a lower speed. Distance and effort builds stamina. The longer you work at a slower sustained work load the harder you can go in short bursts and the faster you recover afterward.
Reason why sprinters/bikers do interval training. All out, recover at a moderate pace, then go again. You keep bumping up/shortening the recovery phase, the longer you can go all out.
  
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Re: Climbing methods in Canoe country
Reply #37 - Apr 5th, 2011 at 6:49am
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Interval training? That's like an uphill portage no? All out, recover at a moderate pace, grab another pack and go again. Wink

At the end of a difficult portage, doesn't everyone take a deep breath and exhale through pursed lips? Isn't that the natural thing to do? It must help otherwise everyone wouldn't do it.

I think I normally do what you guys are talking about throughout the inclines. I expect it comes rather natural to other smokers. Take in all that good stuff in nice and deep and blow it out slowly under a little pressure so it finds/clears every nook and cranny of our lungs.

I'll often inhale through my teeth like a biker though. I get the extra amount of air I need plus it filters out the bugs.
  
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Re: Climbing methods in Canoe country
Reply #38 - Apr 5th, 2011 at 11:28am
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I use my bushy mustache to filter the bugs.
  
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Re: Climbing methods in Canoe country
Reply #39 - Feb 14th, 2013 at 8:52pm
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Recently came across this article dealing with nose vs mouth breathing during exercise.

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