25 Dehydration / heat exhaustion (Read 15536 times)
Joe_Schmeaux
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Dehydration / heat exhaustion
Jul 30th, 2011 at 2:33am
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There have been a couple of recent posts on dehydration / heat exhaustion in the Gear section, pfd topic. I thought it would be worth posting a reminder here just in case others might have missed it.

One poster suggested that overheating is "worse than a bad cold". It's more than that: dehydration and heat stroke can be life-threatening if left untreated.

Two of the main things to look out for when canoeing (or doing any other kind of exercise) in hot weather include lack of perspiration and yellow or gold urine (as opposed to nearly clear). If you're not urinating at all despite drinking a lot of water, you're not drinking enough.

A lot gets mentioned about electrolytes and the need to replenish. This is not as big a deal as it's made out to be: we all get enough salt in our diet as it is. Electrolytes do make it easier to drink more water and for the water to get absorbed into your bloodstream, but if you didn't bring Gatorade, Tang, or whatever, just keep forcing the water down, whether you feel thirsty or not.

fwiw, a couple of weeks ago on a 36 C day (not very strenuous canoeing or portaging), I put down over 10 litres of water. So don't underestimate what's required.

  
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marlin55388
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Re: Dehydration / heat exhaustion
Reply #1 - Jul 30th, 2011 at 2:11pm
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So, to be clear it's not a cold its the cold.

There has been something I have been wondering about for a number of years, and since I am not a biochemist or a physician, here is the query-

      When I have pushed, been pushing my body to the limit, am well hydrated with H20, its very hot, I notice a little dizziness coming on( b kind)

So I have tried the electrolyte thing and repeatedly I end up cramping in the muscle groups that are being exercised within 10-20 minutes after ingestion.

I have also tried eating that helped with the dizziness part but made me nauseous & feel more fatigued.

So can anyone explain the chemistry to me?

Seems to me there must be some connection between electrolytes, blood sugar, lactic acid, and such...I want to understand this better...

Which electrolytes are better?


  
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Magicpaddler
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Re: Dehydration / heat exhaustion
Reply #2 - Jul 30th, 2011 at 3:22pm
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To add to marlin’s Question.  Why do I start getting cramps a day or 2 after my trip is over? It may take a couple of months before all of my cramping stops.  Most of my cramps are lower leg and hand if that makes a difference.
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Joe_Schmeaux
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Re: Dehydration / heat exhaustion
Reply #3 - Jul 30th, 2011 at 4:59pm
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First magicpaddler's question:

This is what Tim Noakes (Lore of Running) has to say:

Cramping, while uncomfortable / painful, is usually not medically serious. Risk factors include old age, undertraining, overweight, family history, and stretching habits. It does NOT appear to be related to dehydration or electrolyte levels. Excessive fluid intake (hyponatremia) can lead to cramping during exercise though. So if you're well-trained and not overweight, stretching especially before starting out might help.

marlin's question is harder. I'm guessing that the dizziness might have to do with low blood sugar - maybe if you eat something high in sugar, it gets rid of the dizziness, but causes an insulin reaction, which would explain the fatigue. See my long post on carbs somewhere in these forums. Maybe "pushing to the limit" uses up all your muscle glycogen and blood glucose, then you try to eat to compensate, but it's too late? Maybe try regular snacking (handfuls of GORP etc) while you're canoeing? I don't think it's related to electrolytes.

Good luck to both of you.
  
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pine_knot
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Re: Dehydration / heat exhaustion
Reply #4 - Jul 30th, 2011 at 6:11pm
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Posted this in the pfd thread, but it probably applies more here. 

I found that heat stress "wall" 2 weeks ago during the Death March out of Delahey.  It was 90, sunny, humid, with no wind.  I drank 2 liters of water before starting and had 2 liters with me.  Not enough.  I literally fell over with the canoe on the second leg as I reached the little pond midway on the 1.5 mile leg.  The canoe hit a 2-in birch sapling left of the trail dead on.  It must have bent away and then snapped back, sending me and the canoe to the ground.  Can't recall the last time that ever happened.  Just before the pond, I reach several rock boulders/faces that needed to be climbed up and over.  But when I tried to take the canoe off to rest, the yoke pad caught my head and next thing I knew the canoe was banging off the rocks and I was sprawled on my back to the left of the trail.  Thankfully, nothing was busted or sprained.  When I reached the pond, I sat in the shade for a good twenty min and even after the rest, my heart rate was still 120 beats per minute and I was sweating like a pig.  Ate a little trail mix, drank some more water, and triple portaged the rest of the Death March.  I recall paddling towards the last portage into Conmee and I could barely move my arms to move the yak paddle...really weird feeling.

It took me 8 hours to reach Suzanette, 6.5 hours was on the portage trail.  At the campsite, I unloaded the gear, sat in the water for a bit, then sat in my camp chair in the shade for about 75 minutes, just staring and soaking in the scenery.  Never felt dizzy or nauseous, just hot, very tired, and relieved the day was almost over.  Finally ate a PBJ sandwich with some gatorade and felt a little better.  Just before heading into the tent for the night, I recorded on my digital voice recorder I bring on solo trips: "Today was a bitch.  Hardest damn day I've ever had canoeing.  I'm 2/3 thirds of the way done with this tough physical trip...not sure I'm enjoying it that much.  I'm very achy, shoulders and back.  Not sure I'll ever do that Death March again without the boys or a partner."

While I never felt cramping, dizzyness, headaches, or nausea during the entire day, I did feel hot and my heart rate seemed elevated after the first 1/4 mile portage.  my clothes were soaked head to toe.  I tried to eat trail mix, peanut M&Ms, a few tootsie rolls, and drink water during the ordeal.  I wasn't hungry at all when I first got to camp...all I wanted to do was just sit there.  FInally ate the PBJ, but had to almost force myself to eat.  Didn't sleep well that night, but thankfully the next day was a layover day.  Good thing I was trolling the shoreline and not casting a spinnerbait to shore or I might have snagged this large black bass...

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intrepid_camper
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Re: Dehydration / heat exhaustion
Reply #5 - Jul 31st, 2011 at 3:49am
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I have found that one good way to stay cooler on a hot day while portaging is to soak a terry hand towel with water and drape it around your neck with the ends hanging down over your collar bones.  It stays put and doesn't get in the way of packs or yokes.
  
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db
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Re: Dehydration / heat exhaustion
Reply #6 - Jul 31st, 2011 at 6:37am
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On warm weather trips I'll bit the bullet and take a big ol' bag of powdered Gatoraid. It's BIG and HEAVY but it seems to be worth the extra effort for the really sweaty days. I do feel better and have experimented a bit 'cause it's WAY BIGGER and HEAVIER that good ol' pre sweetened Kool-Aid.

When my calves do to try to cramp up is usually in my bag in the early mornings following somewhat dehydration prone days. If I stretch 'em out as soon as I feel it starting they pass quickly. Since I'm then wide awake, I'll want coffee. I don't buy into the coffee, soda, alcohol makes things worse mantra. If that were actual reality, I'd of dried up and blown away years ago. My kid already has more freaken water bottles than I've ever had in my whole life. "Gotta stay hydrated dad!" Well yeah OK fine but when did the word 'hydrated' enter our vocabularies anyway? Marketing creates another need for impressionable minds?


Quote:
I'm 2/3 thirds of the way done with this tough physical trip...not sure I'm enjoying it that much.
That sucks. Would you do it again?

Quote:
Not sure I'll ever do that Death March again without the boys or a partner.
Now you totally lost me. Misery loves company? I can understand wonder, necessity, challenges and pride. Known misery? I try to avoid misery whenever possible and would never wish to share it unless begged and dragged to do so by the fully warned. And I would hope the conditions were far better the second time. Wink

Ain't nothing wrong with getting to a camp early in the day (or late in the day) and just sitting there for a while. That's what I often do. Take time to look around, take stock and think - re-hydrate if you want to call it that or try just to remember what day it is. You may even look at a map and the sky and decide you want to press on and do it all over again later!
  
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Jimbo
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Re: Dehydration / heat exhaustion
Reply #7 - Jul 31st, 2011 at 12:26pm
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Tackling an arduous portage or bushwhack on a hot, muggy day presents risks that will likely be either greatly reduced OR significantly magnified by travel in a group.

Generally speaking, it probably helps, more often than not, working as part of a team.  You can do "sanity checks" and watch out for each other.

On the other hand, the operative word is "team".  The team must move well together.  Not everyone travels at the same speed or with equal loads... especially as types of terrain vary.  When Kingfisher & I have traveled together with various parties, we have tried to level-load our portage/bushwhack crossings according to individual capabilities and the geography.  In other words, there is a portage/bushwhack plan... including an understanding of how to handle matters if things somehow go awry for one or more of the party. 

Moving without a plan can result in undue stress and risk on individual party members.  One member may try to overcompensate for others who are moving at a slower speed.  Another member may feel "pressured" to go beyond what makes health sense for him/her in order to "keep up."   For longer portaging/bushwhacking, the plan must provide for hydration needs... especially where fresh water is scarce.  I've seen/heard/participated in too many "near-miss" hydration situations on this board which could have turned real ugly fast.

Traveling with a team is the smarter way to go... especially when the group behaves as a team.  When you have to go-it alone, I recommend extreme caution; be conservative with all of your decisions.

Jimbo   Cool
  
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Magicpaddler
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Re: Dehydration / heat exhaustion
Reply #8 - Jul 31st, 2011 at 2:13pm
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Joe_S
There is 2 times I am likely to get cramps. When I have been working may be over heated and I set down to rest as I cool off if a cool breeze hits me. The other is may be weeks after a trip during the night I will get cramps. It does seem if I stretch before bed I get fewer cramps.
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DentonDoc
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Re: Dehydration / heat exhaustion
Reply #9 - Jul 31st, 2011 at 5:09pm
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In my case, the cramping I experienced was minimal until the last day and then it was in my hands (think joints of your little fingers trying to join up to the joints in your thumb).  But I'd attribute that mostly to a tough 6 hour paddle into the wind (I think if we'd delayed our start for another hour, we would had declared ourselves wind bound for the day).

My paddling partner was worried that I was having a cardiac issue, so I did make a trip to my cardiologist after the trip.   According to him, I've had no cardio changes since my last visit (good news!). 

So I'm left with one of two possibilities (or a combination of the two) which dehydration or the results of a medication I don't usually take that I ramped up on during the trip (it helps to reduce the impact of tremors in my hands which tends to make my photography blurry). 

I do know that mid-trip I was dehydrated because my urine output was very dark compared to normal.  Luckily this occurred during an extended layover during the hottest days of the trip (well over 90 degrees on those days) and I immediately started to consume more liquid.  Before getting back into portage mode, my urine had returned to its normal color.  However, during that work period, I wasn't urinating very often, despite massive liquid intake.

The reason I think the medication could have taken on a role in this situation is that I only take it on a very sporadic basis, "as needed" because it tends to tank my blood pressure.  And, when my blood pressure is low, I tend to feel tired and sometimes dizzy.  I stopped taking it at the end of the trip, but when I got home my blood pressure was very low for me.  I'm typically "high-normal" and 96/52 NEVER happens. 

I'm guessing I set myself up for a "perfect storm" with the weather conditions, dehydration, and medication; and paid the price for it.  Being the last portaging day of the trip, we were lightly loaded and most of the portages were either reasonably level or more down hill than up.  I say lightly loaded because we didn't even have the evening meal or last day's food in our packs ... it was cached on one of the last portages going out.

But, it did leave an impression and I'll not be doing THAT again!

dd
  
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