25 fire/pagami creek /news ? (Read 12043 times)
starwatcher
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Re: fire/pagami creek /news ?
Reply #10 - Oct 22nd, 2011 at 9:57pm
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Quote from the USFS Smokey the Bear
"9 out of 10 wildfires nationwide are caused by people."

My opinion is that the principal cause of the disastrous effects of the Pagami Creek Fire include mismanagement by careless people; namely the USFS forest service managers. I have used the canoe county and BWCA for outdoor activities for over a half a century. Now vast areas have been destroyed by the careless action of the government agency that is suppose to be caring for it.

It will take decades for the forest to recover!

It's time to throw out the old management and replace it with someone with some common sense.
  
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Solus
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Re: fire/pagami creek /news ?
Reply #11 - Oct 23rd, 2011 at 3:14am
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Fire is an essential and inevitable part of this ecosystem. To believe that it can be controlled or suppressed is hubris at best. To some degree big fires are the result of long term suppression and accumulating fuel loads in an ecosystem that is determined to burn.
  
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PhantomJug
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Re: fire/pagami creek /news ?
Reply #12 - Oct 23rd, 2011 at 3:41am
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Exactly right Solus.

Just spent the weekend with my brother who is a crew chief for the USFS in Ely.  He's been on every fire since 1999.  FWIW, that numbered lake corridor has been treated with kid gloves for years and this fire was going to be no different until it took on a mind of it's own.  This thing went from 9 acres to 90,000 acres in a matter of days with virtually no way of having the man power available to keep it at a minimum.  Local crews have very little say in the fighting of fires anyway as those decisions are handed down from higher gov't agencies -decisions that can take days to reach the ears of those on the ground.  Fire is big business for Ely - all of those local outfitters were handed gov't "S" contracts for food supply to the fire crews.  Millions of dollars for the area and local outfitters were made in food alone - not to mention all the canoes and gear they had to rent as well.  If you were wondering what those Cub Foods semi trucks were doing in Pamida parking lot all October - now you know.

Wilderness?? Who are we trying to kid?  The BW is simply MN's free backyard for boy scouts and out-of-towners.  Fire is where the money's at.
  
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Yellowbird
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Re: fire/pagami creek /news ?
Reply #13 - Oct 23rd, 2011 at 4:18am
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Since the end result of such fires are the same, what difference does it make to the USFS/Gov agencies whether the origin is a lightning strike or a campfire?  The "hands off" camp has been describing the benefits the fire will bring to the land.  OK with that.  2007 wasn't so long ago.  The person responsible for the Ham Lake fire killed himself during the pursuing actions of the criminal indictment.  His motive may have been due to the damage liabilities being faced.  Or maybe it was in part the scorn he received from an unrelenting public opinion.  I don't recall the same chorus of benefits being sung back then.  Seems ironic.

-YB
  
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wally
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Re: fire/pagami creek /news ?
Reply #14 - Oct 23rd, 2011 at 11:59am
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there's no middle ground.  Some group will always be unhappy.
FWIW....the forest wasn't destroyed.  Personal property was.
  
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starwatcher
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Re: fire/pagami creek /news ?
Reply #15 - Oct 23rd, 2011 at 6:48pm
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That fire may help out some wildlife, but what about the wildlife that depends on the old growth forest.  Even now I suspect it would have a disastrous effect on wildlife that needs to scrounge for food with the approaching cold, long winter.

Outdoor Life August 2, 2011

WILDLIFE BENEFITS FROM WILDFIRES—BUT AT WHAT COST?

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The Forest Service neglect in putting out the forest fire will be evident for decades.  Didn't they learn anything from Yellowstone?   They should conduct burns to manage the forest when conditions present less chance to get out of control (like they were doing last October with a managed prescribed burn at Kekekabic Lake).  My opinion is that they should have put the Pagami fire out when there were such extreme dry conditions.  It might be a good time to get some new management to review the policy.

A legacy of wisdom on burning in the BWCA
Article by: DENNIS ANDERSON , Star Tribune Updated: September 29, 2011 - 11:04 PM
A Forest Service ecologist instrumental in the BWCA's wilderness designation was prescient on prescribed burning

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starwatcher



« Last Edit: Oct 23rd, 2011 at 8:52pm by starwatcher »  
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wally
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Re: fire/pagami creek /news ?
Reply #16 - Oct 23rd, 2011 at 7:04pm
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and now it's time for the critters that depend on a young forest.  Old growth?...at what cost?

It's all a teeter-totter
  
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starwatcher
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Re: fire/pagami creek /news ?
Reply #17 - Oct 23rd, 2011 at 9:18pm
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PhantomJug wrote on Oct 23rd, 2011 at 3:41am:
Local crews have very little say in the fighting of fires anyway as those decisions are handed down from higher gov't agencies -decisions that can take days to reach the ears of those on the ground.  .


Yeah, replace those guys.

starwatcher
  
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db
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Re: fire/pagami creek /news ?
Reply #18 - Oct 24th, 2011 at 5:54am
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PJ offered a really an interesting comment:
"Fire is where the money is." I heard 14 million on this one recently. Let's see, <+-~250,000 visitors times $16 a head = 4 million? Huh.

The lightening strike vs camper ignition is a difference that makes little sense to me too.

Ummm, starwatcher - I read both your links and my takeaway was I think, different. Short term vs long term views were mentioned in both.

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and now it's time for the critters that depend on a young forest.  Old growth?...at what cost?

It's all a teeter-totter

Has anyone seen a teeter-totter in real life anywhere lately? Aren't those like Jarts?

I've helped with a few controlled burns on different friend's properties over the years. Can we fool mother nature every time and/or for how long?
  
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wally
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Re: fire/pagami creek /news ?
Reply #19 - Oct 24th, 2011 at 6:18am
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I have played jarts!  A teeter-totter spends most of it's time around the pivot, coming or going.  But occasionaly an extreme must be reached.

Old growth good
New growth good
no growth is just a passing phase....50 years or so.  Drop in the proverbial bucket.

Starwatcher, sorry to mimmick, i was just being a donkey.
  
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