We saw the windup. There's the pitch!

Mad_Mat wrote on Oct 17^th, 2011 at 12:46pm:


I still want to see the end of the video btw.

I like the solutions they had out west. In Glacier they had a wire strung and at Mt Rainier they had a metal pole with hooks near the top. Of course these were group campsites and probably not applicable to canoe country. Usage seems somewhat down (especially in the Q) and perhaps bear/camper problems will lessen and not increase.

I've had 2 close encounters and it is certainly adrenaline promoting. I can see where it could be a substantial issue if your food gets clipped far from resupply. Education is key. "Bear attacks, causes and avoidance" is the book to read IMO. Very interesting. You will gain an enormous amount of insight into these highly intelligent inhabitants of the north woods.

master...
Glacier has poles/wire, and lockers in the treeless spots.  Of course they have a bit bigger and potentially nastier bear there, Although when a black attacks, it's often bad.  I was back at Hole-in-the-Wall, Brown's pass, and Bowman lake.  Watched a grizz chase a deer out onto the shore at far end of Bowman, about 200 yds from us....was sure glad we had our food up the pole.

Has there ever been a black mauling/killing in the BW?  Seems pretty rare.

I was warned when I got my permit and by other campers coming out, and had read about this (?) problem bear family (sow with 3 cubs) in "bear reports" somewhere.  SHE has apparently become quite proficient and the cubs are getting a Master education from her.  I imagine they will be at it again in 2012 on the South Arm of Knife Lake.
For a bit more perspective...for the past 15 years (45+ week-long trips in BW and Q) I have not had a bear in camp.  Thank goodness!

Well rare or not it is still very disconcerting to have one snuffling mere inches from your arm with only some tent material between you. Trust me on this one, it will cause the hair on the back of your neck to rise.

In herreros book he describes a woman biologist alone and in the wild who was accosted by a black bear. The bear ate both her arms while she watched. Yes, gruesome. Fortunately she was able to get a message off with her one good arm before it was devoured. Fortunately help arrived. Unfortunately she lost both arms.

In Kesselheims book "Water and Sky" he has quite the time with bears and had to in fact kill one when it proved extra persistent on a portage trail.

There are lots of things in life that are statistically rare. It doesn't mean that I should dismiss them as a non-issue.

mastertangler wrote on Nov 1^st, 2011 at 4:37pm:

Yep.  There's rarely anything that should be treated by extremes in any direction.  Don't dismiss the concern.  Don't lose sleep over it either.  Just behave reasonably & don't put others at risk.

I've seen well over a dozen bears in Q. I was on a real streak for a while there. Most were seen while out and about but two were very near and another two were in camp and had to be chased out. This gas bottle was their total take from me to date:
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Yet I always leave my gas bottle on the ground, just below my toothpaste, within easy reach. I figure either would dissuade them from looking any further.

My favorite sighting was this cinnamon one way up in a little tree. Header background picture on this page: (above the artwork)
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That was nearly ten years ago and I haven't seen one since. Don't see hardly any moose anymore either.

"I can't help but laugh at myself now. I spent years on the trapline with all sorts of scents in my packbasket and never gave bears a second thought."

don't worry MT, we'll all help to laugh at you.

trapping - ? generally a winter time activity when brer bear is asleep, no?

12-13 trips in Quetico, have never seen a bear, except maybe one (a dark shape across North Bay that didn't quite saunter like a moose) back in the mid-90s. Trip friend of mine has been almost every year since the mid-70s, again all in Quetico, and has seen but one or two, from far away.

still, we do keep a clean camp and are watchful (tho we've gotten lazy and rarely hang our food packs, instead wrapping in sealed plastic bags, then in Tupperware and tightly strapped canvas packs under the canoes). 

-- kypaddler

But on a trip I didn't go (had a newborn), the group came across a mauled but still alive moose calf standing in a pond one year, bawling for help. they took pics and scrambled.

yep, under the canoe is the worst possible choice. Stash it in the woods off a trail (make sure you can find it again.....I use reflective velcro runners markers to mark the spot). If they don't smell it they won't find it.

It's never under MY canoe! (heh heh).

But y'all are absolutely correct, and I feel kind of stupid for bringing it up.

I've raised the point before and have been scoffed at -- i think the group is thinking rain and small animals much more likely than bears, which we never see. Camp pretty pristine, and we try to stay on islands anyway.

still, it would behoove me to raise more of a fuss.

--- sign me "Chagrined."

Quote:


Not to pile it on
But IF you've never seen a bear swim, you'd be in for a surprise.
I chased one that I caught in mid-lake once. I was just out of camera range and thought it would make a good shot.
I paddled as hard as I could for a 1/4 mile and couldn't narrow the distance.
Bears swim as well as they smell.
Pristine (clean) yes, Island campsites, not so much

kyp,

I remember hearing/reading that if a aggressive bear came into your camp and you chose flight over fight, you should dive into the water rather than climb a tree, which we all know is foolish with black bear.
After seeing that bear swim ( bear/doggie paddle), I don't think the person suggesting that ever saw one swim

got a pic of one swimming in my report, I couldn't catch it.  I've seen more bears swimming to from islands in the Q over the years....

db:

Can you recall how far from mainland that island was? How long did it take you to paddle over to the mainland that morning?

Your points are well taken (thank you) but I would think that the "safety" of an island is highly correlated to its distance from the nearest mainland.  I've been on some quite isolated islands in Q where I've felt completely "safe" from bears but maybe I've had a false sense of scurity.

azalea wrote on Nov 4^th, 2011 at 3:06am:

Until hypothermia sets in.   

There isn't an animal out there that has any real problem with water.  Any that ever did either learned to deal with water or died off. 
I'm not a fan of island sites, unless the island is large.  They're little micro-environments and can be very sensitive.
In the rare event that you do have a bear problem, would you rather be locked on an island with the bear or have somewhere for either of you to get away to easily.

intrepid_camper wrote on Nov 4^th, 2011 at 3:06pm:

Thumbs fit nicely into eye sockets, if you find yourself that close.

Had the pleasure of working this summer at a location that was thick with bears- both blacks and browns (costal grizzlies). Bears use water for transportation- twice during the summer I saw black bears swimming across the lake where the distance shore to shore was close to two miles. The picture I posted earlier was of a very large brown that we named Phelps because he seemed to prefer swimming to walking- while other brown bears would take the path on the shore he nearly always chose to swim.

Phelps....

Phelps....weed will make you crazy

wally wrote on Nov 5^th, 2011 at 2:49pm:



Well mellow anyway. Let me sit in the kayak and watch for long periods of time.

Phoenix wrote on Nov 4^th, 2011 at 10:55am:


On islands in general:
X8 Batch. We stopped there for lunch once and we were all disheartened by the garbage strewn about. We picked it up and before we left I did one last pass to be sure no one forgot anything. Written in stones by the fireplace was the word "BEAR" in all caps.

1NZ Rawn. Ummm that's actually marked wrong and there are two campsites on that island. Anyway, found a shredded green pack and a mess of FD wrappers strolling that island one day. Years later I shouted a bear out of my nearby camp only to hear shouting from the island a few hours later.

Pickerel. One evening I spotted a bear swimming from the mainland above Wetasi (34H). You'd think he'd take the shortest route but noooo. He was headed for 1ES, which I don't believe is a campsite either but it's close to a nice one you couldn't miss. It was dusk and I lost sight of him in the island's dark reflection. It was time to head back to camp anyway.

Pickerel. Lookout or the one to the east I've seen ripped up rotten logs and dug up anthills that surprised me. Saw a frog in the middle of nowhere on Pickerel one day too FWIW.

To answer your question though, my buddy found me on Sturgeon near ZL. Those campsites don't look right to me either. I think there is another campsite to the west but (with a brass "in memory of" plaque) I was only there for the one night so....

I was a bit shaken plus I had a gas bottle with holes in it but I'm 99% sure I headed west to the mainland. I've paddled between the island and mainland to the north and it was a lot farther than that. Seems dumb looking at the map now but I'm almost certain I paddled west and not north. It was a ways. I repacked stuff and looked for baseball size rocks ... stuffed small branches in the holes ... duct tape was still useless all before I greeted him at his takeout.

I ended up repacking at a site in Diversity Bay. I originally planned a day to explore that area but I ended up on Twin that night. He wouldn't leave me alone so a felt a little more distance was called for. It kind-of felt personal after a while.

FWIW - the first rock I threw at him was larger than a softball and as it rolled up to him he jumped up a tree to avoid it.

YMMAV.

Wonder what the Pigami Creek fire will do to  bear concentrations in the BWCA area just north and east of the fire this spring? Will the fire have pushed a bunch of underfed/emotionally disturbed/wounded animals into that pocket of unburned forest? If everything dove into the water to escape the fire and then emerged to a landscape devoid of vegitation and many running obsticals,how will that effect the preditor/herbrivor thing this winter? Must have been a number of roasts laying/floating around for the scavingers. What came back for this stuff/...birds? 100,000 acres is a pretty large expanse ...

I never go anywhere without the legal means to protect myself from 4 or 2 legged danger.
I think Bear Spray at the minimum is a prudent idea IF push comes to shove.
Where legal, I'd bring Bear Spray and a firearm.
A 12 gauge pump shotgun with a pistol grip handle, loaded with a mix of slugs/buckshot will come in at around 6lbs.
I could find a way to pare down other gear to fit that in especially if I was in Brown Bear country.
While the odds of getting attacked by a wild animal may be the same as getting hit and killed by lightning, IMHO opinion there is one big difference people don't take into account
A fatal lightning strike, your dead before you hit the ground.
Bears will often maul you viciously and if you play dead as they recommend with Grizzly, they'll sometimes bury you in a shallow grave and comeback later to feed on you.
Whether they eat you now or later, dying by fang and claw isn't going to be a pain-free death, unless your " lucky" enough to die with the first bite or blow.
I think the old adage about expecting the best, being prepared for the worst fits here too.
In areas that don't legally allow firearms, I'd consider one of those light weight backpacking bear fences for around the tent at night.
Seems like many attacks happen around then and involve campers being dragged from their tents/sleeping bags.
Common sense and all the precautions mentioned are great but sometimes ***t happens.
When/if it does I'd like to have more than a big stick or pile of rocks, not that theres anything the matter with that

Quote:


An unloaded gun is just a really expensive CLUB
Worse case scenario. You awaken one night to a bear tearing into your tent and grabbing you in your sleeping bag intent on dragging you into the woods for a late night snack
Now that pile of rocks isn't going to do much good then, or that 5' club.
I keep my Bear Spray standing tall in my camp shoe near my side. Yes, the Bear Spray in a confined area is going to get me too, but I figure I have at least a small chance to hold my breath and close my eyes before unleashing it point blank into Yogi's face/eyes.
Better yet, I grab my LOADED pistol grip shotgun and put a slug into his brain pan/chest area. A magnum pistol with the right ammo would be even better at point blank range.
Next best after Gun, where legal or Bear Spray, is sinking my camp knife into it's eye socket or ear canal and hopefully into it's brain.
Not a pretty scenario but the getting eaten alive is a far worse one.
This year they had a couple of fatal bear attacks in the paper close to each other.
I didn't recall reading/hearing about whether or not they had Bear Spray or a firearm? I don't think they had either.
I always wonder what they must been thinking when they knew they were going to be attacked, probably killed?
Do you think they thought it was part of the risk/reward of going into the wilderness and so be it, or did they wish they had some Bear Spray or a firearm and at least a fighting chance.
I'll go with the Spray and Gun

Any one carry a bear banger?  Are they leangle to carry and can you cross the border with one?

I'm not sure what a bear banger is ,(explosive devise on a stick?) ,but does all this mean if I take "main  street" in the BWCA up to the more remote area north of Malberg I'll be more likely to have bear problems?  (...a 44 vaquero always helps me sleep where anything might threaten me...) (Yep,got rope .)

Those are neat. My interest is more as a signaling device though.

When a bear hit my motion detector alarm (pretty dang loud... as in hurt your ear loud) it had zero effect on my bear. He paused for about 3 seconds......never even ran a few steps away. The whole time he was munching my granola the alarm was going off. Probably woke every one up on Sawbill for 1/2 mile.

Like all creatures though bears are individuals and I suspect a goodly number might just head for the hills........but I have already seen it isn't for sure.

These might also work as extremely effective practical joke tools. "Time to wake up" ...........just sayin

In Glacier I was so freaked out about the Grizzlies I rigged a trip wire all the way around my tent at night rigged to the motion detector alarm. I just had to remember it was out there in the middle of the night when I went to take a leak. Once a robin flew into the wire and set it off early in the morning (I had a big flock of them around the tent).

Not sure I would take that tack again. It certainly didn't deter my camp bear and who knows it could be counter productive. Maybe he/she would of just smelled around and left.

Yes, I can understand the percussion concept......good point.

Actually spray is quite effective against grizzlies as well. Effective over 90% of the time. The trick, however, is being able to pull it out and fire effectively in a mere matter of seconds. With Grizzlies it is common to find yourself in close proximity suddenly and unexpectedly which can initiate a charge. Very fast critters when they want to be. Another reason that spray might be a better option than a firearm except if the person is an expert marksman. There is just a small box to aim for if you want to put one down with a handgun.

In judging how much a bear could do after it was shot the only experience I have had is shooting deer.  I have shot several deer where on dressing them out I inspected the heart to find a 12 gauge slug went through the heart.  Every time I got a clean heart shot not hitting any bones other than ribs the deer does not die for a while.  I have had them run over 100 yds. before collapsing. I have had them walk over to a grassy area and lay down as if nothing was wrong.  The maximum time they live is maybe 5 minutes.  If they are running they will last less than 2 minutes. A bear could do a lot of damage in 2 minutes.

Make sure you know which way the wind blows.

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Interesting..........what I took out of that was in 18% of the cases the bears had to be sprayed multiple times to discourage behavior. Might not want to "shoot the works" on that first blast.

I seen a vid on TV some time ago where a guy shot a blackie 3 times and it just krpt on coming after pausing to rub its eyes a few times. He was yelling and being aggressive just before each blast. That bear was determined to get him. (wrong color hat maybe ) The camera guy was either armed, brave or stupid.

I've heard that bears don't come near horses.  Not sure how much I believe that.

Dogs are an iffy situation.  Depends on the bear.  Depends on the dog.  I've heard anecdotes of dogs chasing bears away and dogs leading bears back to camp.

My favourite bear/dog story can be found on myccr, if it's still there.  Going back near a decade.  Samsman is the poster.  Sam is the dog.  Here's a quick synopsis, but the full read is much better.  Bear comes charging down the trail.  Sam (a bull terrier type dog less than 1 foot tall at the shoulder) charges the bear.  Bear attacks Sam.  Samsman attacks bear with a knife. 

Highlight to the yellow to see the outcome.  Better yet, track down the myccr thread and read the full account.  Bear dies.  Sam & man are ok.

Jeez, after reading all this, I'm as bug-eyed as Bill Bryson reading his Bear Attacks book before going for a Walk in the Woods...  I think my closest calls were having throwsack rocks zing past my head, when I got em snagged in the limbs.