10 Feedback for Canoecopia? (Read 10243 times)
canoelover
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Feedback for Canoecopia?
Mar 15th, 2012 at 6:25pm
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Dear paddling buds...sorry I couldn't make a meeting but I was otherwise occupied.  Smiley

I'm collecting feedback and would love to hear more about your impressions, feedback, praise and criticism.  We try hard to do a good job and provide value (166 speaker slots this year) for the ticket prices.

Who was amazing?  Who was less than desirable? New product? What's missing?  What else can we do to make things better and better?

We have our debrief in a week or two and want to bring up all the ways to improve we can.  If we have control over it, we'd like to make it work better.

Cheers,

Darren

P.S.  Picked up my new Four Dog Stove from Don Kevilus. That thing will most likely extend my boreal paddling into late October. Now to sew a campfire tent...
  
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Jimbo
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Re: Feedback for Canoecopia?
Reply #1 - Mar 15th, 2012 at 7:55pm
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Darren,

Overall, the presentations I attended or heard about were "decent" or "good" and of reasonably consistent quality.  This year I only attended four myself ("Rural Wit & Wisdom", "The Stu Osthoff/Rob Kesselring Show",  "Survival Sense" & Deb Kraiker's presentation on preparing meal plans for wilderness tripping).  Deb Kraiker's presentation was - by far - the best of THAT lot.  By the way, I hope your Rutabaga observers took note of presentations where room size didn't nearly match the flood of interested folks.  Deb Kraiker's presentation was a good example of where the room was NO match.  What an overflow mob!

Where I think you might improve some would be in the accuracy & detail level of the promotional piece relative to each show.  For instance, I guessed very wrong on the Jerry Apps "Wit & Wisdom" presentation based upon the content available in the promotional material.  Nice guy, decent presentation for the right crowd but Jerry was serving pablum when what I was looking for was steak.  Many of us here are looking for more advanced canoe-tripping related stuff specifically related to Quetico, the BWCA, Woodland Caribou, Wabakimi, etc..  I've heard several comments from QJer's about how they walked away from a presentation or two feeling like they were served very "intro" type material versus what they were hoping for.  In short, you might do well to consider offering more advanced trip-oriented programs for heavily-experienced Copia visitors.  Personally, IF I attend Copia next year, it is NOT likely to be "programming" that brings me back (unless I see more of what I've mentioned above).  Nor is it likely to be the "opportunity to purchase gear" that brings me back... despite my severe "buying" addiction (even I have limits!).  I'm not seeing the stuff I'm really looking for.  I've driven from the Twin Cities for 7-8 straight years, I'm stocked up on all the fundamental equipment, and I'm looking more for high-tech niche items (example: didn't see any hammock tents, GPS equipment, SPOT Messengers, etc.; maybe I didn't look hard enough).

That's not to say I won't attend Copia & make a day of it (though I'm not likely to buy all-weekend passes as in the past).  Your great event has become mainly a marvelous social opportunity for many of us here.  The folks on the other Canoe Country discussion boards probably feel much the same way.  I submit, however, that you may be missing opportunities to market niche stuff that well-seasoned crowds may be seeking.  Also, there are presentation-types that I've not seen much of at Copia.  I suspect if you were to ask members of these boards what shows & products they would like to see (six months in advance), the lists of presenters & sponsors would differ considerably from yours.   Perhaps you are limited in this respect by vendors currently supplying Rutabaga?  I simply don't know....

Please understand I do not mean to tell you WHO your market should be.  You know where you make money (&, as my wife would tell you, you have certainly earned a LOT of mine!) better than I do.  I simply believe you are missing opportunities.  I also suspect that many of the more experienced folks (such as those who frequent these boards) may be finding less of what they are looking for IN the Alliant Center and more of it over at the local restaurants where they meet up with their discussion board pals.

You continue to run a great show with CanoeCopia (as evidenced by the crowds).  However, for me the show itself was "greater" years ago than it is for me now.  I'm sure it is just fine for a lot of the folks you sell to.  Nevertheless, to be a truly great show for folks like me again will require significant change to both programming & gear offerings.

Thanks for your contributions to our QJ luncheon "door prizes" and, in general, to this forum.   Your event has brought a lot of us together and, for that, we will always be thankful.

That's how I see it, anyway.  Thanks for asking.

Jimbo   Cool
  
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nctry_Ben
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Re: Feedback for Canoecopia?
Reply #2 - Mar 15th, 2012 at 10:15pm
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Bought a pair of Keen sandals there last year. The reciept I was given wasn't usable for a return when they fell apart. I don't buy stuff from you anymore. All I got was adding machine tape. I find it better to buy local.

The Jerry Vandiver Show was outstanding! I'd come back just for that.
  
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Marten
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Re: Feedback for Canoecopia?
Reply #3 - Mar 16th, 2012 at 1:15am
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Jimbo has done a good job in his analysis and I will second what he has said. In looking for more advanced programming I went to hear Rob Kesselring talk about planning a far north canoe trip. Unfortunately he decided to change things up this year and just tell stories. The opposite of that was the Hudson Bay bound girls. The computer quit but they were given another which made a jumble of their pictures. They still managed to give a great program about an advanced trip.

We use canoes and have this feeling, whether true or not, that the kayaks are getting too much of the show. I checked in with Bending Branches to look at the new double blade paddle  they are making for canoe use. I was told it exist but they had none at the show. It reinforced the feeling that kayaks were pushing us aside. On the positive side I was able to have a good talk with the new owners of Lendal Paddles. So many solo canoe paddlers approached them during the show that they are going to look into what they can do for us along the line of a long high quality double blade.

Thanks for asking our views on a great event.   
  
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Puckster
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Re: Feedback for Canoecopia?
Reply #4 - Mar 16th, 2012 at 2:50am
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Darren -- I just want to add an explanation point to what Marten and Jimbo wrote about kayakopia (sorry, couldn't help myself).

I didn't go this year for a number of reasons.  But the 2011 copia was a disappointment to me in that the  focus seemed to have shifted to kayaks.  Like Jimbo said, you know where you make your money, and I don't begrudge you that.  It's just that the show isn't meeting my needs.  I do plan to attend Midwest Mountaineering's Spring Expo: 1. it's free, 2. the staff is heavily involved and the focus seems to be more on the kind of serious, far north kind of canoeing that I enjoy. 

Best of luck, and thanks for asking for feedback.

prouboy

  
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Jim J Solo
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Re: Feedback for Canoecopia?
Reply #5 - Mar 16th, 2012 at 2:18pm
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Good place for me to add my 2 cents.

I'm a canoer, or should I say paddler. My girl friend and I are planning on kayaking Lake Superior this summer, so I hit a lot of kayaking stuff this year. Thanks for offering a broad range of speakers. A lot of info was new to me and I needed to get up to speed. Martha liked the show too, both the speakers and the shopping. She needed cold weather paddling gear and I told her to wait for the show.
By the way sea kayaking on an in-land sea isn't the tame stuff most canoers think of when they think of sea kayaking.
I really liked Body-Boat-Blade's presentations, Leon Somme & Shawna Franklin. I caught their T-rescue and tow talks.

Nigel Dennis was great too.

I didn't like the guys who did "Kayak Camping for Canoers". Some of the stuff they presented was unknowingly directly countered by Leon & Shawna.
  
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Old Salt
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Re: Feedback for Canoecopia?
Reply #6 - Mar 16th, 2012 at 7:18pm
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I will second Jimbo, Marten, and Prouboy in their observations. Midwest Mountaineering is free, and I wish Copia was free also. No one pays to enter a store to shop, yet that is what happens at Copia. About the only draw for me is to visit with old friends and make a few new ones.

And thanks for the nice door prizes.
  
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Snow_Dog
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Re: Feedback for Canoecopia?
Reply #7 - Mar 17th, 2012 at 2:56am
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Yes, first and foremost, thank you for the door prizes!

I only have one small complaint about them...I didn't win one.  So that's my first suggested improvement.  Make me a winner!  Tongue

I'd agree with the opinions expressed about featuring speakers covering more advanced topics.  I'd definitely go to more seminars if I could find some that didn't cover primarily basic, readily available information.

Ideas: 
Remote and lesser-known picto sites in Quetico
Planning expeditions
Canoeing Major Canadian Rivers (in or out of PP's)
Anything by Marten Kehoe
Ultralight canoe-camping

...and I could keep going

I would also suggest having your speakers rate their presentations as basic, intermediate, or advanced.  It would also be nice if the blurbs about the presentations were less about the presenters themselves and more of a summary of what, specifically, they plan to cover in their presentation.

Finally, I get why you have to charge admission for the event.  The Alliant Center isn't exactly hosting you for free, I'm sure.  I do appreciate the discounts that many of your vendors offer for the show and I find that this more than covers the price of admission if I spend $100 or so...and with my kids getting the canoeing bug, that's likely not going to stop anytime soon.

But as others have said, the main draw for me is the QJ gatherings.  If those came to a halt it's highly unlikely that I'd make the trip from the Twin Cites as the gas/motel expense more than eats up any savings the vendors offer on gear.

Hope you find this thread helpful and I do appreciate your request for feedback!
  
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Snow_Dog
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Re: Feedback for Canoecopia?
Reply #8 - Mar 17th, 2012 at 10:35am
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Oh yeah, can we make all the kayakers wear some sort of a scarlet "K" on their shirts so we don't inadvertently talk to one of them? 

Plus, I don't want to get any kayak cooties, so can you please segregate the kayaking vendors off to one side of the building so they're easier to avoid?
  
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Jim J Solo
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Re: Feedback for Canoecopia?
Reply #9 - Mar 17th, 2012 at 4:05pm
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I thought I should add that I've only been to Canoecopia once before, so it's all not as old for me. That said I wouldn't go every year, and it's as much fun seeing friends as anything, even if I get teased about my regressive paddling interests  Grin  Cool

My canoe kit's pretty complete. If it wasn't for the need to pick up cold water kayaking gear (wetter ride than canoeing) I probably wouldn't have bought much. It is a big plus to talk to the vendors directly and not just some trained sales staff that's trying to cover a lot of different areas. Being able to try on gear right then is worth a lot too. Friday is by far the best shopping day, forget Sat or Sun.
  
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