25 filtering anyone? (Read 20006 times)
Spartan2
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Re: filtering anyone?
Reply #20 - Mar 30th, 2012 at 9:56pm
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I have been told that you have to ingest the water in order for the giardia to get into your system, so it would seem to me that washing your body, or swimming and not swallowing the water (especially if you don't swim with your face underwater) would present a minimal risk, if any.  The organism needs to get into your intestinal tract, not just get on your skin.

Tubing is a concern, and one I do worry about.  Since we wash dishes with either boiled or filtered water and air-dry them if possible, I hope we have taken adequate precautions.

We have been going for 40 years, nearly every year, and we used to drink from the lake.  Then we tried iodine tablets (ick), and boiling (works fine, takes a lot of time and fuel), and finally filtering. 

We look at filtering as just a bit of insurance, since we don't want to have our trip home, which is usually quite leisurely and takes several days, or our first few days at home after a trip spoiled by a severe illness.  And of course, in our case, now that my husband has had a kidney transplant, the nephrologist at University of Michigan hospital has told us that it is only common sense to filter the water for giardia, since it is a serious health threat for him and could be even life-threatening (as he is immune suppressed due to his medications.)  She also said to us that she feels it is necessary for anyone to do in the BWCA, and she is a person with BWCA experience, not one of those clueless doctors who has never been there.  Wink

I know that a lot of people go to the BWCA and the Q for years, drink the water from the lake and don't get sick.  I also know, and have talked to some of them, that some people do contract giardia and they are very ill.

Personally, I would like to try to lessen my chances. I don't like raging diarrhea very much.   Tongue

  
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Bearsfan
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Re: filtering anyone?
Reply #21 - Mar 30th, 2012 at 10:21pm
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We used the water bag for the past 3 trips in past 3 years.  We were initially really impressed.  Then about halfway through 8 night trip it slowed down to a dribble.  We took out the hand pumps.  (6 people)

Next year, 2 people.  Couldn't believe that this could happen again, had to be a faulty filter.  By the end of the trip, same thing.

Now here is the funny thing, you would think that at $50 per filter for the bag, a person would just go back to the hand pump, which seem to have the same flow rate for 2 plus trips.  However, this product is pretty cool!! We bought a second one (4 people).  Sadly, the oldest one sprung a leak about half way through the trip and by the end of the trip the 2nd one slowed to a trickle, it still trickled.  (It seemed, if memory served me, about 25 minutes to fill one nalgene). 

Since it costs $50 per filter, I am looking at the Platypus system, $109, the reviews at REI don't say anything about slow flow. 

Oh, by the way, I wrote to Katadyn about this.  They said that in Quetico the water has some type of microscopic slime that makes the filter clog up faster than normal.  In 30 years of going up and reading a  Undecidedlot, I never heard about this, but i did google at the time and there is such a thing, but alas, no reference to clogged filters. Frankly, I believe Katadyn created a very cool product with a very profitable water filter for them to sell.  Isn't capitalism great!  Hopefully some other manufacturer will figure out a better filter system that lasts longer.
  
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mastertangler
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Re: filtering anyone?
Reply #22 - Mar 30th, 2012 at 10:51pm
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Bearsfan (Go Lions)
There has been some talk on the site in reference to the Base Camp and the Platypus. I have both.......although only about 3 trips with the platypus and 2 trips with the Base camp so take my opinion for what it is worth.

So far I am in love with the Platypus and dislike the base camp. Not sure what the dif is in the filters. I picked up the base camp because of the additional capacity but found it unwieldy and slow. I disliked carrying two gallons up the side of the bank (I am old and weak). It was nice however to have the additional water once it completed however.

One Platypus is ideal per 2 people IMO. One thing to be aware of......when you are hanging your "dirty water" bag try and get into the habit of resealing the ziplock seal shut. My tendency was to leave it open and after hanging it from a limb pieces of bark would invariably find their way into the bag due to the strap rubbing against the bark. Any material dislodged falls straight down into your bag. No good. The flow rate BTW is very acceptable.

Pumping water is my least liked camp chore. The Platypus system makes life a breeze. Bada-bing......tent is up and ohhhh, look, there is a bag of water! Sweet!
  
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azalea
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Re: filtering anyone?
Reply #23 - Mar 31st, 2012 at 12:02am
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Quote:
swimming and not swallowing the water (especially if you don't swim with your face underwater) would present a minimal risk, if any.


Not exactly.  Compare drinking a glass of water, taking gulps of water but spitting them all out, and not putting the water from the glass in your mouth at all.  Obviously there is some additional risk taking gulps from not taking anything, but taking gulps if far less dangerous than drinking.  With gulps, something in the water does have the opportunity to go through your system.

Obviously, not ever putting your head in the water is a different story then normal swimming.  And normally when people swim, their mouth is not tightly shut (if not wide open) so water goes in.  Yet millions of people swim in lakes far less clean then CC lakes without prompting warnings from health officials.  That indicates the risk is minimal unless the lake is very polluted.  And I have no doubt using untreated water to wash/rinse dishes is safer then swimming.

As some have indicated before, there is a huge problem with basing conclusions on anecdotal evidence.  Maybe those who have never gotten sick have just been lucky.  Maybe those that did get sick did so not because they drank water from the center of a lake but because they had a quick cup of swamp water or got infected from dirty hands touching something on land.

To me it is clear.  Drinking from safe locations is at least pretty safe, so whether one filters or not is a matter of personal choice as to whether that minimal risk is acceptable.  Worrying about swimming, wash/dish water, etc is (in my opinion) paranoia (unless the water is very skanky).
  
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Gavia
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Re: filtering anyone?
Reply #24 - Mar 31st, 2012 at 12:15am
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mastertangler wrote: ".....when you are hanging your "dirty water" bag try and get into the habit of resealing the ziplock seal shut. My tendency was to leave it open and after hanging it from a limb pieces of bark would invariably find their way into the bag due to the strap rubbing against the bark. Any material dislodged falls straight down into your bag."

I've been using the Platypus system for four years now and much prefer to leave the "dirty water" bag open.  I backflush and dump regularly, so anything that might drop into the bag gets tossed.  But I do seal the "clean water" bag and leave it that way, specifically to keep debris out.
  
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Westwood
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Re: filtering anyone?
Reply #25 - Mar 31st, 2012 at 4:19am
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What about portages?  It is summer and you are wearing sandles.  On a lot of portages you are going to be getting your feet wet and some of that water is going to be swamp water or worse.  At the end of the portage you adjust your sandles or socks and horrors of horrors your hands touch the dirty water.  Do you immediately wash your hands or just wipe your hands on your pants.  You are going to be exposed to germs regardless of how careful you are.  How many campers eat food which has fallen on the ground even if the 5 seconds rule is violated.  Everyone is comfortable with a certain level of exposure to risks.  My attitude is not to let unreasonable fears lessen the enjoyment of my trip.
Westwood
  
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mastertangler
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Re: filtering anyone?
Reply #26 - Mar 31st, 2012 at 12:06pm
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Gavia wrote on Mar 31st, 2012 at 12:15am:
mastertangler wrote: ".....when you are hanging your "dirty water" bag try and get into the habit of resealing the ziplock seal shut. My tendency was to leave it open and after hanging it from a limb pieces of bark would invariably find their way into the bag due to the strap rubbing against the bark. Any material dislodged falls straight down into your bag."

I've been using the Platypus system for four years now and much prefer to leave the "dirty water" bag open.  I backflush and dump regularly, so anything that might drop into the bag gets tossed.  But I do seal the "clean water" bag and leave it that way, specifically to keep debris out.


Your right. My natural inclination is to leave the bag open as well as I find it annoying to try and seal it.  Although I must admit to  becoming annoyed having debris fall in no matter how careful I try and be......I have also had bugs fall in. What might be slick is a "hanger system" where one avoids having to employ a limb in the first place. It would have to be quick, easy and weightless and be able to stash itself in the stuff sack the platypus resides in. Just a thought. No more looking for the right branch.............Just slap it around a trunk with its little arm and it is always the right height with no bark falling in. Gonna have to kick that around some...........Or maybe just a cloth type cover laid over the top? Or maybe just don't worry about it  Grin
  
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Gavia
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Re: filtering anyone?
Reply #27 - Apr 2nd, 2012 at 4:12am
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[quote author=mastertangler
What might be slick is a "hanger system" where one avoids having to employ a limb in the first place. It would have to be quick, easy and weightless and be able to stash itself in the stuff sack the platypus resides in. Just a thought. No more looking for the right branch.............Just slap it around a trunk with its little arm and it is always the right height with no bark falling in. [/quote]

Funny you should mention that.  My system is simple and lightweight and does just what you suggest.  I wrap a 1/2" rope around a tree about 6-7 feet high, with a loop in the end hanging down a few feet.  I clip a double-ended snap shackle to the rope and another one to the loop.  Each one holds a water bag.  It's easy to switch the bags, and the hose doesn't touch the ground.

I also use a 3-gallon reservoir with a third hook, but it would be too complicated to describe the entire setup.
  
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mastertangler
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Re: filtering anyone?
Reply #28 - Apr 2nd, 2012 at 11:23am
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You have my attention but not my understanding. Sometimes I need to be spoon fed and I'm not ashamed to admit it. I have not set my mind to this yet but I am very interested in your set up........

1/2 inch rope around the tree........do you secure the rope first and if so how? Truckers hitch?.......is the loop in the tag end or is it a dropper made in the middle of the line?

How do you achieve the differing heights for the 2 bags or is one on the ground? I can't remember if there is a place to allow for a snap on the bag.......if so does it stay level? Double ended snap shackle? I am familiar with shackles for anchors......would this be similar to a double ended snap that would be on a dog leash? Actually I am completely confused but am determined to implement something. Maybe after my second cup my brain will start to function and I will say "Ohhh, that's easy"  Grin

A picture would be worth a thousand words. It may be helpful to others as well........in fact your name just might be immortalized in camping lore........"The Gavia hanging system" (Patent Pending)  Wink 

  
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TuckRiverMan
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Re: filtering anyone?
Reply #29 - Apr 3rd, 2012 at 11:28pm
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Been going to Quetico since 1981 at least once a year with between 4 and 6 people. Never filtered a drop and no one has ever gotten sick. We always get our water at least a hundred yards from shore.
  
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