25 Organic eating (Read 27318 times)
solotripper
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Re: Organic eating
Reply #30 - Apr 8th, 2012 at 4:17pm
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But what you are saying and what Solotripper are saying is about "eating healthy".  To me, that is a very different thing than "eating organically".



Yes, it is SP2. I think that the idea that eating "organic" is the only way to avoid cancer or other diseases is well meaning, but simplistic.

I'm a big fan of the PBS science shows. I've watched many shows devoted to eating "healthy"/ avoiding cancer/ etc. A lot of good stuff but as of yet, not one all conclusive method of staying healthy or avoiding illness/cancers.

Something's are obvious. We were meant to move. Looking at a human skeleton/muscular system from an "engineering" perspective, and nature/God designed us to move, not sit which is what many of us do too much and to our detriment. Carrying to heavy a "load" for the frame is just as damaging be it the bed of a trailer/pick-up, or you knees/back of a human "frame".

Eating as close to what nature provided rather than processed foods is or should be a no-brainer as well. We have "mechanical" systems designed to chew/break down tough fibrous items and a complex digestive systems to process them.

Other things are not so obvious. Why do some people live long and healthy and do everything "wrong" according to modern science? Why do some cultures eat high fat foods and have lower incidents of heart disease and cancers associate with there consumption than we do?

Some scientists believe we all have the cancer "genes" in out bodies. Why do some people get it and some don't? Many think "stress", especially long term chronic stress is the "key' to triggering the cancer genes to mutate and start the disease process?

Lots of questions, not as many answers. I saw a PBS show where one of the cutting edge cancer researchers now believes that we'll never cure cancer becasue it's virus based and will always mutate new strains that resist the cure. He believes that cancer will wind up like HIV/AIDS, something that can be managed and controlled?

A good friend of mine and one of the smarted people I've ever met, is working on his PHD in Chinese medicine/Acupuncture. The Chinese believe that ALL health problems stem from the inner conflicts of the mind and that the disease is just the symptom of the inner conflict. They treat the symptoms, but believe the "cure" lies in finding why the person has that inner conflict and fixing that.

I had a very interesting conversation with him recently. As part of his PHD program they brought in a noted Western trained heart specialist to talk about cholesterol and heart issues. We all know/hear non-stop about good/bad cholesterol. Other cultures have diets that put their people on the high end of bad cholesterol levels, yet their overall rate of heart problems is still way lower than ours?

Anyway, the Chinese believe that "heat" their name for infection/inflammation is what triggers that plaque to clump together and cause the blockages in the artery walls that starts the heart attack/stroke.
They believe it's the stress caused by mental conflict that you might not even know about or admit too, that triggers the event, not the cholesterol levels? Completely against the common belief we all hear about from our doctors.

Well it seems this doctor said to my friends amazement that cutting edge research is leading many Western trained doctors to believe the ancient Chinese beliefs are not so crazy after all and that there is a growing body of research that is starting to show that stress, causes "heat", which starts the process of disease/cancers.

It will be a long road to change conventional Western thinking, but if you think about the people you know I bet you'll notice that high strung/worriers tend to be ill a lot more than easy going people, all other things being equal.

Do the obvious things, a little exercise/keep you "load" under your frames limits and eat as close to natural as you can. Don't obsess over things and do all in moderation.

I do believe stress is the key and managing it in a healthy way instead of a self destructive way is the key to keeping yourself as healthy as possible for as long as possible.
  
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Re: Organic eating
Reply #31 - Apr 9th, 2012 at 5:48pm
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Jon wrote on Apr 6th, 2012 at 1:41pm:
The nut case checking back in. I eat a lot of fish when in the Quetico. It seems to me that being in the park is about as natural, non-civilization experience as one can have in the world today. I thought others might agree with me that dragging a lot of processed unhealthy food along would be a somewhat counter to that. I am surprised at the responses. I guess QJ participants are more into insulting each other than anything. I'll try to do more of that but it's not easy for some of us.
Jon


If you could better define what you mean by 'organic eating' you might get better results.

Most trippers I know are the steak & potato crowd washed down with Schlitz, finish that off with a pie & coffee, finish that with more beer or scotch.  Not known for their healthy diets.

Most of us want to spend our time out there enjoying that feeling of freedom.  So a loaf of preservative laden bread beats baking bread when you should be fishing.

I'll admit to being a jaded sceptic.  If it goes in my mouth as food and out the other end as usually expected, it's organic.  If it passes through my system untouched I don't consider it organic.  So many things get labeled as 'organic' when in fact they're no different from the apples that are 1/3 the price - at least not as far as your body is concerned.  Organic in my experience is more marketing than anything. 
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I eat the same sort of food while tripping that I eat at home.  Less meat while tripping is about the only difference.
  
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Spartan2
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Re: Organic eating
Reply #32 - Apr 9th, 2012 at 6:16pm
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[/quote]
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[/quote]

Grin
  
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Jon
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Re: Organic eating
Reply #33 - Apr 10th, 2012 at 4:22am
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The nut case checks in again. I apologize to any of you that found my snide comment about cancer offensive. It was harsh. I am also sorry I did such a poor job of defining organic/healthy eating. For me that is a bit of a struggle too. I vacillate between the paleolithic diet and the traditional athletes diet. But I believe there is a huge difference between eating cattle force fed corn and antibiotics in a feedlot, and grass fed pasture raised beef. And there is a huge difference in the nutritional content of  vegetables grown in depleted soils with lots of anhydrous ammonia and those grown organically by sustainable agricultural methods. Organic farming rebuilds soils and delivers food that is nutrient rich. Everything has an organic alternative. A more expensive alternative but of all the things to be cheap about, why be cheap about the things that you put through your body? Again I apologize for all the offending I did by starting this thread, it wasn't my intention. Nor was it to evangelize my beliefs on this issue but I really thought there would be others on this same path and we would exchange information related to Quetico tripping. I know I have an attitude, sorry, it is the way I am. I really wish there was some way I could convince everyone to eat organically and exercise fanatically so they would all feel as good as I do, but it is impossible you just have to find out for yourself, or not.
Jon   
  
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solotripper
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Re: Organic eating
Reply #34 - Apr 10th, 2012 at 2:26pm
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I really wish there was some way I could convince everyone to eat organically and exercise fanatically so they would all feel as good as I do, but it is impossible you just have to find out for yourself, or not.


Jon,

I hope you take this in the way it's intended, but with all respect, there's a difference between being fit and healthy and there not always inclusive. Eating as healthy as possible isn't a bad thing, but being obsessed with it or anything for that matter isn't healthy either.

From you previous post I know your an Ultra Marathoner. Endurance athletes, especially the ones that are into the long distance events are like the Ferrari's of the sports world. Like a high-tech sports car that's finely tuned, it doesn't take much to put them in the "garage".

My friend that is going for his PHD in Chinese Medicine/Acupuncture is in business with 2 other guys that do "body" work like he does. They do different modalities than he does. One of his partners is an ex-pro rugby player, and the other is an Canadian track athlete who competed on the International/Commonwealth game level. They work with elite jocks to help them recover better and increase their performance.

One of their clients is currently training to make the Summer Olympics as a sprinter. He was on a previous team as well.

My buddy, is the guy pictured next to the Olympic sprinter with the needles in his thigh.
I'll send you a link in a PM, as I don't think it's appropriate to do so on the open forum.

Anyway, he has told me that working with world level endurance athletes, he has found that becasue the push their bodies to the extreme and have very low body fat levels, that one of their biggest problems is that they often are getting sick with every little illness that they come into contact with.

Body fat is the right percentage plays a huge part in keeping your immune system strong. Get to low and like that Ferrari your performance suffers and over extended time, you can actually damage your health long term.

I'm not knocking exercise, I do it in moderation myself, but when you say your a "fanatic" about it, then that sends up a red flag IMHO.
Training and peaking at race time is one thing, trying to ride that level of fitness for extended periods of time isn't the best for you long term.

Being fitter than most is great, but what about after your competing days are over?
Being fanatical about anything is a game that you can't win at least not long term.
  
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Re: Organic eating
Reply #35 - Apr 10th, 2012 at 2:45pm
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Everyone eating organically would result in mass starvation and there's the cost involved.  Tell a single parent to triple their food bill without getting any more food for their family.  It's just not practical.

I haven't heard any credible proof that an apple with the 'organic' label is any more nutritious than an apple without the label.

We live in the First World.  We have choices and the right to enjoy those choices.  By all means enjoy your choices.

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Myth one: Organic farming is good for the environment
Myth two: Organic farming is more sustainable
Myth four: Pesticide levels in conventional food are dangerous
Myth five: Organic food is healthier

'Anhydrous ammonia' is just a fancy word for fertilizer.  Anhydrous means dry.

So we're back to worrying about the risks of finding hydroxylic acid in your tap water.


I consider nutrition while tripping to be very important.  More important than any other time.  I'm working harder (a lot harder) than I normally do.  I'm without easy access to help.  It just makes sense to eat well & get quality calories & nutrition.  Once I forgot to pack protein.  By day 3 I had an all-day headache.  Someone caught a fish and the headache went away shortly after eating.  Fortunately we caught lots of fish that year.  Ever since then I've been aware of the food I pack, making sure that each day has proper meals.
  
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Kerry
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Re: Organic eating
Reply #36 - Apr 10th, 2012 at 7:27pm
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For those interested in what we eat and how that has been manipulated by the food industry, both Big Agriculture and especially the food processing industry, might want to read Michael Pollen's "The Omnivore's Dilemna."  This is a book of incredible insight and is extremely well written (i.e., a good read.)  Pollen debunks a lot of myths and is, himself, skeptical of the implications of the "organic" sobriquet.  Organic farming is increasingly becoming Big Agriculture and as Pollen points out, monoculture agriculture, whether organic or conventional, is problematic.  Growing 500 acres of organic lettuce is not fundamentally different from growing 500 acres of lettuce grown conventionally - it might be chemical free and that's a good thing but the issues run far deeper, as Pollen points out.  His chapters on corn and how cheap, empty calories have come to shape the eating habits of our culture (and the obesity, diabetes and heart disease that come with it) are eye opening to say the least.  No matter what your stance on food, I would say this book is a thought provoking must read and I highly recommend it.
  
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Jon
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Re: Organic eating
Reply #37 - Apr 11th, 2012 at 1:00am
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Hi ST
Thanks for the thoughtful response. I am actually not all that successful at endurance sports. I was a heavy smoker from age 14 to 38. I quit smoking at half time of the 1st Vikings game in 1999. In the spring of 2009 I realized my 10 year anniversary of being a non smoker would occur at half time of the 1st Vikings game in the upcoming season and I thought running ten miles after the 1st half would be a great way to celebrate.  At the time I weighed 225 lbs and was kinda flabby. But running just melted the pounds away. I did a 10 miler in August 2009, a half marathon in Sept and a full marathon Feb 21 2010 in Florida. That day I finished my 1st Marathon and had my 1st ambulance ride 30 minutes apart. It wasn't a great idea to train in Minnesota on a treadmill all winter and do a Marathon in Florida but I survived. Then I decided I needed to learn to swim so I could do a triathlon so I go to the pool at the local high school at 5:45 AM for adult open swim and can now swim a mile in 50 minutes. Both my swimming(I am the slowest guy or gal in the pool) and biking have almost infinite room for improvement. Doing these things exposes one to lots of nutritional advice and I have sought information for a variety of sources. But this path my life has taken also gave me the confidence to return to the Quetico and I did last June with my daughters. I am now so anxious to return it is almost unbearable. So I joined this group to keep the enthusiasm going. But although I have run an ultramarathon (only one and it was excruciating 7.5 hours) I really can't be categorized as a world class endurance athlete. I just do it all to stay in shape and be able to Quetico trip. I guess I have Aspbargers according to everyone that knows about it and me. I have the same enthusiasm for healthy eating as everything else I do and so I brought it up, tactlessly per my usual modis operandi.
Jon
  
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Spartan2
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Re: Organic eating
Reply #38 - Apr 11th, 2012 at 1:51am
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That was a very honest and interesting post, Jon.  Thanks for sharing that information, as it made everything you have said make a lot more sense.  I salute your good choices, and your enthusiasm for them.   Smiley

Happy paddling.
  
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Jon
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Re: Organic eating
Reply #39 - Apr 11th, 2012 at 3:17am
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Thanks Spartan 2
I am trying to fit in here somehow. I enjoy reading all the posts. Happy paddling to you also!
Jon
  
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