"I bet the Quiet Journey posters have some really great tales to tell about bringing people to the Quetico who just don't fit in there".

not me - I know better than to bring someone like that on any of my trips.  too selfish to allow my trip to get ruined by anyone I don't know well enough to know for a fact that they will be at least OK. 

[sigh] Camp chores [/sigh]

PhantomJug wrote on Sep 28^th, 2012 at 2:48pm:


OK PJ. Bad choice of words.
Change that to "help". I never asked him to do anything or told him to either. But I thought maybe once he would volunteer.

Jim J Solo wrote on Sep 28^th, 2012 at 4:41pm:


No problem Jim.  Mostly referring to the original post by Jon.  Camp chores and work schedules?  Hopefully words I never utter while canoe camping.

I don't care what anyone brings if they can carry it. We'd try to educate first timers but what they did with that info beyond you get two group meals a day and expect rain and a little hardship was up to them.

I agree they are no chores with significant others but when friends, and especially friends of friends are unhelpful, after a few days that can become an unneeded and unwelcome source of irritation. Some add interesting fodder to campfire discussions or have a particular talent like cleaning fish or getting wood that's helpful and that's fine, but if their best contribution to the group is around the fire at night telling everyone: "Oh, and another time, I got so f'ed up..." all she got invited to in the future was the post trip party. She was more than welcome there.

The air in the pack comment struck me as funny. Some pack so tightly at home that they can't fit everything back in. Hey, here's a yellow plastic bag... Keep it. We don't need it.

Well, if I ever canoe camp with any of your guys, I hope I don't screw things up and make a mistake and your expectations go unmet.  At best I get publicly flogged and at worst, I might not make it home.

Geesh . . . so much for a relaxed vacation . . . 

I find people who can’t get outside themselves to be annoying and boring on canoe trips.   
You’ve all met someone like this.  They are everywhere! 

It’s the guy who does the “one-upsmanship” thing.  He responds to any story with his own experience on the subject -- and it’s usually bigger or better. 

It’s the guy who only talks about himself.   

It’s the guy who never responds with a follow-up question to a story; something like: “Wow, I didn’t know that,” or “Gee, you must have been happy when that happened; literally ANY response that doesn’t involve his own story.   

Sadly, I think the art of listening is becoming a rare and disappearing skill.  Listening requires a genuine interest or curiosity in others.  It’s not a competition to tell your version of the same story.  It’s an interest in learning about another person life story. 

It’s hard to have a conversation with people who don’t know how to listen.  Having this kind of person on a canoe trip can make for a long trip. 

prouboy

My philosophy on canoe trips is "let everyone do what they want"......
I could care less if I have to pick up someone else's slack. Just keep smiling and eventually it all comes back around. So you make the dinner AND do the dishes.......no bigey. Certainly not worth obsessing about.........maybe the person just needs some downtime without a bunch of pressures. If the guy is a schmuck cut him out next time.

I guess it is easy to say I'm not going to let someone ruin a trip for me when I have never had a lousy companion. I might sing a different tune  if I got saddled with a real dud. So far so good..... up

BTW......you have to keep an eye on Prouboy. He is very artful in the realm of conversation. I had intended to inquire of his life when we had some lunch together but before I knew what had happened lunch was over and I knew very little about him. Very clever fellow I must admit.

jjcanoeguide wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2012 at 6:52pm:
A friend and I did two school trips with 16 or so people in the groups. Then the two of us went for a few years and one spring we got beat pretty bad. Then one year his wife and my gf decided they wanted to go along. We did everything to discourage them because we didn't want to be blamed if they didn't like it. We even took them in summer when the living is easy. Then for a few years the four of us did the same thing w/ others who invited themselves. We made sure anyone new knew exactly what to expect. My friend and I would do what we called 'recon trips' in spring to find the best.... Hey, it was an excellent excuse to do two trips!

Over the years my gf and I decided we enjoyed each other's company the most so we'd do spring trips with just the two of us. Years later same gf's kid (city kid) wanted to go. I was contemplating solos by that time so I took him as ballast one summer. The kid didn't know how to do anything but was open to suggestions. We took an easy trip but in the middle of it was a solid three days of horrible weather yet he never complained about anything whatsoever on the entire trip. Haven't seem him in 15 years but I'd take him again if he were to ask.

Over the years I've learned to choose carefully. Now that I only get one trip a year I don't want any disappointments and now with this site, that goes both ways.

We invite new comers on our cold fall trips, any one from +12 to over 80 as long as they understand what to expect and don’t need to be convinced to come along.  Most fit in and find their nitch on how they can help out.  I've seen some participants that won't do their share of the camp choirs, but a little peer pressure or chore schedule usually corrects the problem.  This year one of our regulars had some medical issues and couldn't portage anything.  We understood this from before the trip and everyone agreed to chip in and carried his stuff.  He made it up, as always as camp chef and chief bottle washer.  As long as everyone is doing the best they can, that's acceptable.

The worst participants are the whiners that complain about stuff that you can't do anything about (“it's raining” in a whiny voice). SNL Whiner family is the perfect comedy example, but not funny on a trip.  We generally drowned them on the spot and those that survive are not invited back.

starwatcher

That's a little drastic for sure, but just maybe the reason she was so helpful to her rescuers was that she had learned a hard lesson
Still it could of ended very badly.
Would love know how that all played out?

Jack Ronning wrote on Oct 11^th, 2012 at 6:30pm:


Jack,
You have found a good place to find canoe partners  right here.

This has been a greatly entertaining thread!  My (to be) wife labeled me "the canoe nazi" on the first (and overambitious) trip I took her on.  I seem to recall portaging to Trousers in growing dark, the first night out, following our dog's white tail...  Not good.   That was a long time ago, and she married me anyway.  I have mellowed out, I think (more just from age than from any quality of character...).
     Also, I remember -- and this is even longer ago -- when I worked as a teenage "guide" for scout canoe trips out of Moose Lake.  I always had groups with great adult "advisors", far as I remember.  Another guy, though, had an advisor that insisted the crew practice silent landings and sneaking up on other campsites...  Sort of confused the wilderness experience for reserve training, I think...

QP
I can just see you chomping a stogy and tossing the maps into the fire.
MagicPaddler

Took 3 buds on their first trip 10 years ago. I put the most gung ho guy in charge of getting the food since he was an excellant cook and I am not.   ...so what,s he bring? Frying oil,10lbs of potoes,and MREs!  We did manage 2 fish meals,but ...   

The worst I can think of is I joined a group that was going and we took two vehicles, she was in the same with me. As we approached the Forest lake exit she said ”aren’t we going to stop for something to eat?” We stopped so she could get something. Next she wanted to stop at the Wyoming rest stop so she could go to the bathroom. When she opened her mouth to ask if we were going to stop at the Moose Lake rest stop, we all beat her to the punch, by this time everyone wanted to get away from her. It was at this time I realized I was probably the one who was going to get stuck paddling with her. Everyone else had a paddling partner!

I did manage to avoid sleeping in the same tent as her the night before we left the landing. I slept outside under the stars to avoid her. It was obvious I was also going to be sharing a tent with her. I prayed it would not rain so I could continue sleeping outside. It was fall, so no worry about bugs.

When we finally started paddling it wasn’t as bad as I imagined, her paddling was so weak and ineffective I just paddled as if she weren’t there. She made for great ballast though, only a little over a hundred pounds so I placed a pack right behind her as a backrest which turned out to be good because she quickly tired and complained, no make that moan, about a sore back.

We were always the trailing canoe, everyone else had two able paddlers, and one of the guys who thought he was Bill Mason or maybe Paul Bunyon suggested that we switch partners. He quickly fell behind and when we had to paddle a small creek with a class I rapids she threw down her paddle and grasped the gunwhales so tight her fingers turned white. The front of the canoe caught a rock and they spun around and dumped. Now we had to listen to her whine about being cold. We made camp and put her to bed. I was now joined by the two other people from “our” tent who did not want to sleep with her. We plotted different ways we could kill her and dispose of the body without getting caught until we fell asleep.

When we finally got back to the take out she proclaimed “I’m never going on a canoe trip again” Everyone looked at each other thinking the same thing “we’re not ever going to ask you again” I finagled a way into the vehicle she wasn’t riding in on the way home.

I guess I didn’t learn my lesson, a few years later someone asked me to join their trip to fill out an empty spot. It turned out I ended up with the male version of this woman, but that is another story.

Marten hit on something I've observed regarding the "last day." 

I used to plan our last camp so we had an easy 2-3 hour paddle out the next morning.  But we often experienced "the horses are headed to the barn" syndrome.  By noon on the penultimate day, the group begins to think, "Do we really want to set up and break down another camp, just for a 2-3 hour paddle in?"  That question invariably leads to "Let's push on out this afternoon.  I can already taste a cheeseburger and chocolate malt!"  Exactly what Marten mentioned. 

So now I plan the last night's camp a full day's paddle from the take out point.  I try to get over any big body of water, to avoid getting winded, but I am careful not to get too close, and thus avoid the "horse-to-barn" syndrome. 

prouboy