I've also found that the lightweight spandex type long johns help out against ticks.  You'd think they'd be hot on a warm day, but on Aug 27th, it was in the mid 90's and I was not uncomfortable paddling.

PhantomJug wrote on Sep 24^th, 2013 at 3:21pm:


Havin a bad day? Maybe a bad month? Like I said this may be old hat to some of you more experienced trippers but I'm a neophyte.....you know, a beginner. I'm not a big hard drinkin, bag-pipe blowin, kilt wearing tough fellow but just a tender hearted artist with delicate sensibilities (please don't hurt me).

So yea, this was a lesson learned. Maybe its not so smart to run in shorts as per my usual custom. Who knew folk have actually died as a result of Lymes? And maybe, just maybe I might not be impervious to poison Ivy? But wait there's more lessons that I learned coming!..........unless of course you would like to post a topic of conversation? Hey come to think of it I can't remember you starting much of anything, except of course "commentary" on what other people post. So what about it? Why don't we turn the tables and you can start something and subject yourself to petty snide remarks? Whadya say?

I don't get it? I have always been supportive of you PJ, invited you to Florida to fish and tried to set you and your family up with my friend in the panhandle to take you out. What gives? It's OK.......story of my life, people who really like me and people who don't. No bigey. Here is a recipe.......go make some stew. (pretty good, I'm eating some right now  )

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MT -

Typically I'm wearing long pants on portages due to foliage overgrowth & the fact that I am highly allergic to poison ivy.  Incidentally, there is one little known BENEFIT to being allergic to poison ivy.  If you happen to have planters' warts on your feet, dermatologists might suggest that you actually walk BAREFOOT down the portage path.  Yes, you will likely catch poison ivy but there is a better than 50% chance that you will also get rid of your planters' warts as your body recovers from the poison ivy.  I once had thirty of the damn things on my feet; THAT was how I got rid of them!

Re: lymes disease, I'm not sure how many cases can be attributed to time spent in the Q or the BWCA.  I'd be interested in hearing any facts or figures on that one.  I went into the Q this past August w/a good friend from NJ who caught the disease in NJ & was just recovering from the stuff.  It's very prevalent out east &, to listen to him, it's really bad news stuff.  Catch the symptoms early and deal with them or go through hell... those appear to be your choices. 

I've never had problems w/ticks in the Q beyond the middle of July.  They are particularly bad in the spring & then they seem to tail off & virtually disappear by that time.  Plucked 13 of the little beggars off of me after walking that long portage from Yeh into Lonely Lake one June.  You get a bit further north in the province, however, & they don't exist.  My understanding is that they are NOT present at all in Woodland Caribou Park.  Of course, with global warming, who knows how long THAT circumstance will last.

Most campsites I've visited in the Q have been relatively free of poison ivy so I walk about freely in shorts (sometimes in less than that).  On the other hand, I exercise a bit more care when I trot back into the woods, trowel in hand.  There are some places on your body where you simply do not want to catch poison ivy... regardless of the presence of warts.

Jimbo   

...and here's one more dealing with the life cycle of deer ticks. From something I read, September seems to the best time of year for avoiding ticks.

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A well published scientist told me that by the year 2000 a large part of Florida would be under water.  That was in 1990.  He told me all the models predicted it.  You are old enough to remember when the threat was the polar ice caps were going to melt and the oceans were going to rise.

It is rare that a tick actually attaches before I find it. I found one tick attached this year (five trips of a week or more in the Q + live in the area). I wear shorts any time the temp is 60 or above.

The only superbowl played in Minnesota was at the Metrodome (indoors) in 92. If the players were observed wearing xxxl panty hose it was for personal reasons.

i bring/wear the thin nylon zip off pants. that way i have pants/shorts at a moments change. they are thin enough and light enough i usually wear them as pants all the time. that way i dont get sunburn/bugs/scratches from plants. for portages, i usually tuck the bottoms inside my neoprene socks. helps avoid the tick problem and also keeps me from walking on the heels of my pants and tripping.

i also bring a set of under armor leggings for under warmth if the need arises on my june trips.

Ticks are one thing but keeping cool is a large part of not attracting mossies.

Permithrin treat long pants and shirts spring and summer.

The cotton poly blends Piragis sells are working for me. Long cuffs on the pants and tuck'm into your socks. Button up the top shirt collar and flip the collar up. Then you need very little deet to finish covering up.

Phoenix wrote on Sep 24^th, 2013 at 6:56pm:


I used to work with this guy (see link) -- a wildlife biologist who studied song birds.  He discovered that many songbirds he trapped were covered with ticks.  He wrote a paper on how migratory songbirds help spread ticks, and lymne's disease. 

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prouboy

prouboy

Puckster wrote on Oct 19^th, 2013 at 9:30pm:


Oh you do not.

I'm finding out lots of interesting things about ticks. Such as Martin having to pick so many off......who knew? I think the most I Have ever had was 2 or 3.

I was recently next to a potter from New York State who had a place out in the country. After several bouts of Lyme disease including one which hospitalized his wife they finally figured out that their cats were bringing the ticks into the house. He also got quite a few Guinea hens and says that since he got them they have had zero ticks.

When I bought my house there was a patch of poison ivy on the side that took me years to fully get rid of. I don't see much of it in Q at all. I had a bad case in high school once. It was kinda worth it.

Ticks are most problematic in the W or SW in Spring. I just tuck my pants into my socks after the first tickle. That's the thing about ticks. They just keep crawling up up up, tickling all the way until they can't anymore and I've never just picked up one tick. Where there's one there is usually more.

Quote:
That's what I always told girlfriends and my wife.

As far as PMs go, they are for personal messages -as in stuff the group doesn't want or need to hear. Most people, including MT at times, use it rather effectively when they want to. I'll trade quality information for repetitious volume any day:
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YMMV.
There's a dozen more that come up in a search. Hey, they are probably great pants! I got no clue. Permethrin still seems like overkill to me too but hey, whatever works for folks. I don't even bring shorts anymore. I wear the same pants night and day the whole trip. Fashion faux pas - I know. I had to wash them this year. S tube of soap blew up in a pocket and I couldn't stand the smell.

I don't know your history with him but I do know that this board has a reputation and this thread highlighted some of that.

TomT wrote on Oct 20^th, 2013 at 10:23pm:


No history Tom except here on the board. PJ objects to my "hey look at me, aren't I a swell guy" style of posts (fair enough) and I am confrontational to a fault to posts that I see as mean spirited wether directed at me or someone else. So we clash.

But I think we both understand that folk are seldom one dimensional screen beings but rather have "layers"

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db wrote on Oct 21^st, 2013 at 6:36am:


db,

I'm sure the Moderator group would be interested in what you might learn, too.  Speaking as someone who has 34+ years of professional human resources experience behind him, I'd be very interested in learning more about the "reputations" earned by the vagaries & vicissitudes of our QJ membership.  If we have significantly deviated from some theoretical "norm" in some meaningful way (good or bad), I suppose the Mod team needs to share some "credit."

People walk away/disconnect/resign from websites for any number of reasons.  Often they simply can't deal with the diversity of perspectives, tones, & attitudes they encounter.  We certainly see all types on QJ!  Some of the disaffected become bitter about it and snipe away at the website (or some of its members) elsewhere in cyberspace.  It's their prerogative to do so, I suppose.  They can frame their story afresh and minus any contention OR they can simply hook up with other disaffected & commiserate.

I, for one, am glad we have a Moderator board to review &, possibly, deal with "extreme" behaviors.  Perhaps it should be more active; perhaps less active.  The only way we know the answer to that question is to hear from members, whether it be complaints or plaudits.  That includes the earning of "reputations" that members prefer we NOT have and wish to have addressed.

As for me, I'm going to keep plugging QJ (in articles I contribute to magazines, other forums, talking to other paddlers & such).  I am very much OK with having my name associated with it... regardless of whatever notoriety/reputation we may have earned along the way.  I am very happy with the preponderance of activity I see on this website.  That's not to say that we don't need to change things every once in awhile; I'm sure we do.

I guess I'm saying that - if we have a "reputation" - it must because the members want it that way.  Otherwise, I trust, we would be hearing more about making changes, interventions, etc..  Geez, from my POS ("point of skew", for the db & QJ uninitiated), when I listen to members about issues, about all I'm hearing is... crickets. 

In the QJ bygone days of yore, Mod interventions were more frequent (& necessary) due to gunfights & inappropriate content blooming here & there.  Lots of member complaints & issues came up... that's how you sort yourself out & decide what you're going to be when you mature, I guess.  And now we are what we are... for better or for worse. 

May we're too "tolerant" now?  I don't know.  Comparatively speaking, however, our current era of MT & PJ "sparring sessions" seems to me more like our halcyon years!

In summary, anything we might learn or do to improve the website, I'm all for it; always have been.  My guess is the other Mods feel pretty much the same way.  If folks have something to say, we'll listen & address it.

Jimbo   

I second Spartan II's point #5, and I'm not even conservative.

prouboy

I don't know anything about QJ's reputation.  But I do agree that the discussion on the political /religion areas were embarrassing and damaging to QJ.  I even thought of quitting the site because of the outrageous comments made on the site.  I still have trouble listening to certain people when they talk about fishing and camping because of the outrageous comments they made previously.

It certainly is true that QJ focuses on Quetico, but that is a big plus to me.  I haven't been to the BWCA for over 25 years and have no immediate plans on visiting the BWCA.

I brought up the word "reputation" so I want to add that I frequent another board and like Lynda echo what she has heard about QJ. 

Maybe I was quick to come down on PJ (hey, I'm relatively new here and really don't know who he is) but I just saw it as so unecessary to what was an innocent thread topic by MT, who I really don't know also.

I realize these forums can be very hard to manage with all the different personalities but maybe people can be a little more tolerant of others positions here. That includes religion and politics. 

this seems like a good group of very experienced trippers and I enjoy the Q heavy aspect as I lean that way now myself.  And - it's much smaller membership than the other board is very appealing to me also. This board doesn't stray too much from the canoe camping topic which I appreciate.

Carry on.

me, I've always preferred Quality over Quantity - noise for the sake of noise isn't a "Quiet Journey"

this has always been a "quality" site in comparison to the many other forums I've looked at whether canoeing or backpacking or climbing oriented

but I don't mind poking fun at people either, for that matter.  sometimes, lately, I've found myself reluctant to add to a post if I don't really have anything constructive or destructive to add

Quote:


hey Jimbo.

As a writer, I'm geeking out right now.

Nice.

- kypaddler

ST:  I don't think having a separate designation for BWCA would work now.  This forum has turned its back on the BW for so long that another forum has taken its place and that is probably OK.  The last time I remember a specifically BW post here, I answered and I believe one other person did.  It soon fell to the bottom of the page, and off the page, and I don't think that person has posted since.

It isn't a criticism, it's just a fact.  If you want to talk about the BWCA, this is no longer the place to come.  And the respondents to my earlier comments have already made that clear just since my original post. 

When I came here at first, I was pointed to this site by a photographer friend from Chelsea, Michigan.  He had seen my BWCA photography, and he suggested that I might enjoy Quiet Journey.  I dipped my feet gingerly into the water, and back then (probably about 2004 or 2005?) it was more balanced between the BWCA/Quetico.  Because we had been to both, we could comment with everyone and we felt like we fit in.  Now that we only go to the BW, and now that we don't travel on the same kind of adventures that we did when we were younger, we don't have much to contribute.

But this was my first canoeing website and I love it here.  I check in every single morning, first with the POD, and then with the general forum.  Occasionally I post, although rarely now.  I miss some of the people who used to come here regularly, and I am glad to see some of the friends we have met through the years who are still here.

If I gave the impression that I am upset with anything, I am not.  It is what it is.  db asked what the "reputation" of QJ is, and since I am now more active in other communities, and since I get feedback from people who know I am a loyal QJ member as well, I thought I would give my perspective. 

Reputation?  Yeah, maybe.  But if the word applies, then it applies to the sister websites as well.  QJ has a lower percentage of the “I’ve got time to visit, let’s talk about . . .” type of threads in comparison.  You may “like” reading about the dog shows in the Twin Cities or seeing  who wished who a happy b-day, etc.  If so, then QJ might not fit your style.  Personally I am not compelled to congratulate someone for making their 10,000th post.  One well written article in the BWJ has more value.

Cliques? Yeah, maybe.  Fraternity might be a better word, but for the most part, I see the majority of the group preferring to stand individually.   We get a new starting line up every so often and the spike of activity establishes their acquaintance with one another.  The former line up might seem “quiet”, but consider that when any member acknowledges your informative posting, he/she is speaking for any number of members. 

The Search Police? Theirs is a thankless job.  These guys usually display great capacity to sniff out a poster who will gather their research here and then post their thesis there.  It helps the respondants on the other forum to increase their number of postings.

Political forum? It wasn’t always one.  Generally speaking, that is recent.  Once the momentum built, it quickly turned into a spectator sport.  I support the view of hiding it.  The drawback is that I’ve no place to tell you about my dog, my b-day, my drama, my whathaveyou.  Seriously tho, there were many good discussions there, which I miss.

My interests in the forums are trip planning, fishing, and gear.  The rest gets a scan.  Trip reports rate as a favorite.  I know they are time consuming to create.  Your investment is appreciated.  Next would be a good photo sequence complimented with notes.

The time I have to participate on the forums has been quite scarce these past few years.  Work demand is the biggest culprit.  My boss is a corporate VP who has never been to the BW/Q.  If he ever decides to go, I will direct him on the shortest route through Badwater Lake and into the Wolseley Swamp.  He will be advised to make as much noise as possible along the way.  Then I will sit back, image, and delight in typing away at all the possible scenarios of what became of him. 

-YB

solotripper wrote on Oct 22^nd, 2013 at 3:53pm:

ST,

I swear the guy can douse a campfire by looking at it. 

Even so, it might just be the ticket for him and your old pals.

-YB

and what was it that Mick Jagger said about not being able to take a joke?   Seems to me a little 'jacking around' through mild and transparent insults and taunts actually shows acceptance and even' back handed' respect. It is assumed the recipient recognizes that you are playing. ...playing is what you do with someone you like.

Er, back to ticks... Was in Wabakimi area in June and don't recall any (even with lots of brush and moose sign).  Was usually wearing long pants with permithrin, though.  Skeeters, flies and noseeums got their pound of flesh, though!

I am a relatively new member of Quiet Journey and enjoy what I find here. I have not paddled in Quetico or the BWCA in years so I do not ever comment on threads concerning them. I read the threads and if I could help someone I would. I visit different  forums and can see that each site over time attracts a like-minded core of participants. QJ had evolved into a "Quetico" site before I started visiting. My destination is usually WCPP but I have always felt welcome here. No matter where we paddle in central North America the equipment and skills are similar so there is a lot to learn on any of the sites.

IMO every site will end up with a "reputation" and that is not a bad thing as long as the reputation is not one of meanness or elitism. I have seen sites where certain postings would bring out the same biting criticism every time. On QJ a posting on using a double blade or a GPS does not draw such animosity. I hope this thread has given everyone a gentle prod to be courteous and to examine our words before hitting "Post Message."

Quote:


The BTC forum can be about anything politics included.
If someone doesn't want to engage on subjects that are controversial, they don't have to click-on the subject.

Sometimes the title can be mis-leading, but a quick look pretty well tells you if it's for you or not.
I still fail to understand why people are offended when the read a forum subject they don't improve of. Like cable TV, take a quick peek and then "turn the channel" if you find the content offensive.

I suspect in some cases and it's been described that way, it's like a bad car wreck that you slow down to see initially and then cringe with regret when the view offends your sensibilities.

  IF it "bleeds" over into the other forums, the moderators have the responsibility/option to set the guilty parties straight. up

BillConner wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 5:01pm:


Bottom right hand corner where it says Forum Jump. Scroll down until you see Back to Civilization*
You need to opt in to view/participate.

HighnDry wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 9:27pm:


I think you need something like 8 posts and 5 bucks to place out pay to play status. What anyone does with that information is up to them. Inuk mileage may vary.



Quote:


Wait, ahhhhhmmmm. OOh! OOOH! I think I got this one! Part of the reason this forum is seen differently by different people is, in a very real way, all my fault.

It's in the same place it always was except I doubt there is any official reference to it anymore if you didn't opt in. For a while, just the title of the current thread being visible generated complaints so that only lasted for a month or two. By that time BTC was hated so passionately that even the post that explained where it went is now invisible and the invitation to access was by request only was removed after a few months of no requests either way.

I get it but I don't. Even a few folks that complained about it the loudest wanted access to it. No one else really requested access after the initial rush of maybe two dozen people and there is really only a handful that actually ever say anything so no biggie. I'm a bit of a couch politics junky ... so if anyone wants to play (and it is basically politics only now) another opinion is always welcome. If anyone want's in, let me know. Change your mind, I'll be glad to make it disappear for you again. Participating members have the (MTNR) designation above their picture on the left. As I recall, posts in that forum are not included your post count and it's not cliquey at all IMO.

And for what it's worth, an open mind and/or thick skin is a plus everywhere.



I always wanted QJ to resemble a real trip so here are three things to keep in mind.

1- You guys all know there is a BW portage database on QJ with more entries than the Q database - right?

2- I think it was ten years ago that I first began asking for donations. I wanted to call it quits on the forum and was looking for an excuse to do so. Since then, I have considered this forum to be YOUR forum. Be the change YOU want to see or shut up and paddle damn it!

3- About 30 years ago, as I paddled out at the end of a particularly challenging trip for me (at the time) using "never again, never again, never again" as cadence for every stroke of the paddle for miles 'n miles before the take-out....... I haven't missed a year since but for those few hours, you couldn't have paid me enough to do the same thing again.

Are there any former members of the CCBB listserve left? I loved that forum and I still kind-of miss it. To this day I'm not exactly sure what killed it. I miss the solotripping forum too and will confess being a little bitter but I do kinda understand why that one went away. There are other forums that have come and gone. I started working on a QJ forum after the CCBB got hacked and remained broken for a while. Timing is important too.

Bottom line - the basics should be common knowledge by now but I will agree that no one on QJ falls all over themselves welcoming new folks to QJ.


Quote:

What a great line! And thanks for mentioning something I had forgotten all about YB. All I know for sure is this is a lot more interesting than discussing big boy pants again. (Oh c'mon. It's gotta be funny to someone. If you ain't flying you probably ain't trying hard enough.)

Jimbo wrote on Oct 21^st, 2013 at 9:56pm:


Maybe we should change, but we won't. We will listen to you, but we won't really listen.

Proscription of personal attacks is not a "theoretical" norm. It is an explicit rule for (afaik) all discussion boards like QJ. In QJ's case, the user agreement for these forums states "You also agree not to post any material which is inaccurate, defamatory, abusive, vulgar, hateful, ..." This was discussed at length a couple of years ago, and led to the quarantining of BTC. Things seemed to have been pretty clean around here since then. Til now.

IMO the exchange earlier in this thread between PJ and MT was clearly defamatory and abusive, and should have been deleted by the moderators from the first post. At the time, I figured maybe people were off canoeing and this accidentally slipped by. But your post has me concerned that things haven't really changed, and we're headed towards more BTC-type attacks in the canoe boards, not just in the religion-and-politics threads.

As a great American statesman once said "I have seen the enemy, and he is us."

Relax Joe, whats wrong with a little good old fashioned defamatory abuse to stir the pot a little? Besides, when all was said and done there may have been some benefit. Sometimes what is needed is to grab someone, shake them, smack them around a little and then throw a bucket of cold water in their face before they "get it" (unfortunately the election is over  ).

 

"Sometimes what is needed is to grab someone, shake them, smack them around a little …"
I guess you're trying to be amusing, MT, but what you're describing is actually abuse.