10 2014 Trip Planning (Read 3943 times)
Old Salt
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Re: 2014 Trip Planning
Reply #10 - Nov 26th, 2013 at 12:53am
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My 2 cents. I would use a 3-man canoe, and plan to rotate seating assignments.
I would head south from Nym to fish Jesse and lakes enroute to Sturgeon. You could base camp a few days on Sturgeon then do the Deax. I would skip the exit at Stanton and continue to French. Chances are good that you'll experience the thrill of a rising tailwind, another reason for a big canoe. Smiley Sad
  
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Jim J Solo
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Re: 2014 Trip Planning
Reply #11 - Nov 26th, 2013 at 3:24pm
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Jimbo, I talked to Ed this spring and it sounds like he's done doing tows. I also was assuming a plane could land close to Bell Island, not the Indian village. I've had Deux Riviere be a problem on the opening of the permit season. Must have been a low snow year, and I got caught walking it 3 weeks after using it OK. I just don't trust it anymore.

PD, Is right about the Min III, tight but it works. I used an Itasca from Anderson's fitted with a 3rd seat last fall, not as good IMO.

JG, Old Salt has a good trip idea unless there's a compelling reason for your original trip plan.
  
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john_galt
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Re: 2014 Trip Planning
Reply #12 - Nov 26th, 2013 at 4:28pm
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As of now we only have 2 "for-sure," and the 3rd is a maybe, so a decision might not even be necessary.  That said, I'm surprised by all of the advice for a 3 person canoe.  Just seems like it would be really tight, and too difficult for 3 people to fish at once.  Especially of one of the guys is big/tall type. 

What about this - If money wasn't a concern, and we weren't really worried about the expense of hiring a guide as a 4th, would you still have the same opinion?  Our concern is just getting the best possible fishing experience for the money.  I don't get to make these trips that often because of work, so when I do the cost isn't really a concern.  The last time I was in quetico will have been 13 years ago; the last time I went on any fishing trip will be 4 years.  Cry

Regards to the route - we're open to Old Salt's suggested trip - we had considered this too.  We also considered doing completely different things (clay to Kawnipi, exiting either poets or Saganaga).  I guess the deciding factor would be this - how is the fishing in the maligne/lower sturgeon???  The last trip we did Stanton-to-Nym, so we are familiar with that area and the pickerel narrows.  Fishing was great there, but we thought we would go deeper into the park and attempt to get access to more remote fishing this time. 

If you guys think the fishing will be "pretty much the same" or "even better" doing Old Salt's suggested route, then I think we wouldn't bother with the cost/effort of going through maligne.  We would also consider any other suggestions.  Thoughts?

Thanks again.
  
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Jimbo
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Re: 2014 Trip Planning
Reply #13 - Nov 26th, 2013 at 10:04pm
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John -

Three to a canoe is a personal preference thing, for sure.  Personally, unless one or two of the three were kids or adolescents, I wouldn't do it.  I have the same concerns as you regarding the limitations it places on fishing.  Nevertheless, I've seen Kingfisher make three-in-a-canoe work extremely well.  A lot of the earlier comments re: speed & portaging are more valid than not but they may not necessarily pertain to MY paddling party (or yours).  I LIKE paddling my solo & I'll elect that option every time when travelling with an odd numbered party.  I'll keep up with tandem (even if it kills me!).

If fishing & getting deeper into the park (presumably for even better fishing & solitude) are your main objectives, there are any number of routes that work well with the number of days you have allotted.  "Crossing" the park or a "fly-in" isn't really required.  There ARE fishing hot spots, of course, but you can find a lot of information about fishing by: 1) checking old trip reports re: areas of the park of interest to you, and 2) soliciting info on this forum & on the fishing forum (& requesting IM versus public responses).  My experience is that by going 2-3 solid portages deep into the park (from almost any entry point) and you can be into some pretty good solitude & fishing.

Too bad you're not headed into the park two weeks earlier.  My 28 year-old son & I have similar objectives & we're heading in for about the same length of time.  We could plan to share a campsite one night & swap fish tales.  We've met many a QJ'er in much the same manner.

Let us know what you really want to fish for & maybe that will spark some ideas re: how you might modify your route.

Jimbo   Cool
  
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portage dog
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Re: 2014 Trip Planning
Reply #14 - Nov 26th, 2013 at 10:34pm
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John,

If you are hiring a guide, who just happens to be your 4th person, the number of canoes ceases to be an issue IMO.  If it's the fishing you're after, you're paying for the expertise.  Find a good recommended guide and start exploring some planning options with the guide as to routes, species, remote lakes, etc. - THAT is what you pay a guide for.  I've never used one, so I don't have any recommendations.

As far as a 3 man boat, I have had very few trouble fishing 3 at a go.  A tangle or two now and then when trolling, but few.  Casting or jigging should be no issue with a few ground rules about etiquette and safety.  Normally I stern and my bow and duffer will paddle on the same side and fish the other when trolling.  Again, a little coordination is good, like everyone else reels in when a fish is on...though we have had triple hook-ups on occasion!  It gets exciting. 

As far as room goes, big and tall may be a challenge, but not much more than in a tandem.  For a tall or large person, the bow is always tight, esp. leg room width-wise.  The tallest should stern for most comfort....IF a competent paddler.  Try a MINN III out locally with 3 if you have the ability to do so or at least go see one at a dealer - and take your gear.  Leg room in the center can be tight, but you can stretch your legs out on either side of the pack ahead of you, which is in front of the portage yoke.  All the storage is b/w the yoke and bow paddler.  Three large packs will fit fine IF you practice TMS control (Too Much SH......tuff) - ie no chairs, one shared tackle box, no coolers, easy on the 'fresh' foods, light weight gear, etc.  On this summer's 9 day for 3, we got three people's personal gear and two tents in one GG Superior 1 (I'd go with a GG#4 next time), two 30L food barrels side by side in a GG#4 and the rest of the crew gear (fuel, stoves, saw, rope, tableware, pots, rain tarp, etc.) in a traditional Food pack.  The BWJ Guide pack held the tackle bag, water bottles, first aid kit, toilet kit, lunch, rain gear and bug repellent/sun screen.  It sat b/w the duffer seat and rear thwart, providing somewhat of a backrest for the duffer (bonus!).  If you take a lot of 'conveniece' items or excessiver tackle, it will get pretty tight.  I'll allow 4 people and two canoes does give you quite a break on the room for gear. 

Most of my food is 'grocery store' stuff carefully selected, so don't think it's all light weight backpacking foods.  I've elminated all but a few tasty dehydrated desert items.  Most of my crew will claim they eat better on the trip than at home.  Fresh steaks, Chicken with tomato basil pesto, eggs/bacon, Salmon pesto pasta with olives, artichokes and sun dried tomatoes, fish chowder, hot apple cobbler, tuna/apple flatbread sandwiches, french toast...just to whet your appetite.

I think if you don't get up there often and are 'pulling out all the stops' it can make a guide's experience worth it for you.  There should be plenty of advice on that here on QJ too.  And if you want to maximize the fishing...minimize the stuff and simplify your menu.

pd
  
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Jim J Solo
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Re: 2014 Trip Planning
Reply #15 - Nov 27th, 2013 at 4:42pm
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Let me add to my 3 person canoe experience. It was more out of necessity. Neither of the other 2 paddlers were capable of steering a tandem, keep it moving in a head wind, nor strong enough to carry a boat over a portage, or paddle a solo.

Previously I had soloed with other 2 guys in a tandem and the speed difference was too much to make for a pleasant trip, they were the slow ones in the tandem. I was going later in the season with two gals and I knew a solo and a tandem wouldn’t work. So I rented a 3 man canoe. After doing that for the last 2 years I’m really hoping to get another strong tripper to join us on our next trip. 3 man canoes work, but not my favorite way to go. When fishing it was best if I just paddled the stern and let the other 2 fish.

But fishing from a solo can be frustrating too if it’s at all breezy and you’re out in the open.

JB, if you’re using an outfitter talk to him for some ideas. If you want to fly-in, think about a Mack Lake entry, exit French or Nym. You’d be going down stream, see some neat country. If you need a 4th and cost isn’t a problem, a guide should put you on fish and be a big help. Most posters have a strong DIY bias, but guides can be a very positive experience IMO. Take notes.
  
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mastertangler
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Re: 2014 Trip Planning
Reply #16 - Nov 27th, 2013 at 11:34pm
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Granted I have limited experience vs 2 strong tandem paddlers but I have not noticed a huge difference between solo vs tandem. Perhaps you could put the 2 weaker paddlers in a tandem and 1 stronger paddler in a solo and get acceptable results.

Wind might factor into the equation if your going during shoulder months. Just a thought........

I'm not so keen on 3 in a boat......that could get old real quick. Plus with the solo anyone could take it out whenever they wanted without requiring cooperation from someone else who might be interested in doing something else. Flexibility!
  
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Mad_Mat
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Re: 2014 Trip Planning
Reply #17 - Dec 2nd, 2013 at 4:37pm
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"I guess I'll throw this thought out there too. Is maligne route even worth it? Battling upstream and open water in llc/sturgeon. Or is it not worth it, and we should save cost of float plane and do a Stanton or nym loop down to access the same fred/Russell/scripture area, round-tripping back out through the north.

Again, any advice you have please keep in mind our primary goal is accessing remote areas for fishing."

if you do the Malign River, I agree with Ranger's advice to
reverse your planned route and go downstream rather than upstream.  2nd week of June, the water can still be very fast, and there are a half dozen or so "rapids" to negotiate - all but one or two have portages around them, but may be tricky to approach in high water - easier to go downstream.

Is it worth it ?  is just a matter of opinion I guess - its a nice route, but not really remote - LLC First Nations may be using Three Mile Lake as a landing strip, and the campsites in that vicinity are over used for that reason - if that is where you would fly in to, it would eliminate paddling LLC and about half of the river.  Fishing is supposed to be good on the river though I don't recall ever catching anything except below the last waterfall pouring into LLC (miniamal effort there) - you could do a side trip to Poobah if so inclined. 

If you are more interested in using a fly-in as a way to access more remote areas, you might consider flying in using the Mack Lake entry - actually they land/drop off in Clay Lake outside the park, and you travel down greenwood creek to wawiag river - that would give you access to Mack Lake via upstream on Mack Creek for one or two days, then travel back down the wawiag river to Kawnipi, and then out thru the Poets Chain to Russell - from there you have 2 or 3 options to get back North - say vial Lonely Lake to Nym takeout, or via Deux Riv to Pickeral, or via "B" chain to Pickeral and out at Stanton Bay if you are using a canadian outfitter.

I'd suggest calling the park HQ and asking them what lakes the LLC FIrst Nations are using for motorized/fly-in in 2014.  That might influence where you decide to go.  might be Poobah, or Sturgeon.  I've never done a fly-in trip, so not sure of the logistics - the HQ shoudl be able to answer questions about that and point you in the right direction towards who culd fly in.

Also keep in mind, if you used a MN outfitter for the fly-in, you would need an RABC to cover the border crossing issue - can't recall if there is still a customs station on LLC or not, just something to consider - my view, its easier to drive across the border, esp if you would be using a canadian outfitter

wind on the big lakes is just something you can't predict - often at that time of year, bad weather comes in from the NE, so going east is a chore - but storms can come in from NW just as well - prevaiing winds are out of the West, but I've never been able to count on that working very well.
  
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Jaeger73
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Re: 2014 Trip Planning
Reply #18 - Feb 5th, 2014 at 4:59am
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I have been on a couple of trips where a Minnesota II was used as a 3 person.  Very crowded, and less fishing freedom, both in movement and choice of water to cover.  It is an advantage in portages, but that is it.  A good paddler in a solo can keep up with a tandem unless both paddlers in the tandem and strong and experienced.  When I solo I use a twin blade break-down canoe paddle as my primary travel paddle, and a single blade for fishing and navigating rapids.  The twin blade paddles are very efficient.
  
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Old Salt
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Re: 2014 Trip Planning
Reply #19 - Feb 5th, 2014 at 4:06pm
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It sounds like one of your questions is, which lakes offer the best fishing? I have my own list, which can be had with a pm. What I've found is that most good lakes are clustered with other good lakes. Tell me what your after. I'm also going to suggest a small portable fishfinder.
  
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