25 2-Part Question (Read 41787 times)
solotripper
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Re: 2-Part Question
Reply #30 - Mar 11th, 2014 at 1:50pm
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Here's a size/weight chart for Cabelas Duo-Lock snap swivels.
I know what KF means by some swivels being to hard to open, especially the smaller ones.
I like this type, they seem easier to open for me.
I don't know if there more prone to opening under load than the other type, but I've never had an issue.
In their print catalog they have a picture size chart to give you a better idea.

As you can see, you have 4 choices at the # 25 rating.
?, Can you tie a loop in one end of that titanium wire and hook into a quality snap swivel on your main line.

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DUO-LOCK CHART

14: 15 lbs
12: 15 lbs
10: 20 lbs
8: 25 lbs
7: 25 lbs
6: 25 lbs
5: 25 lbs
3: 50 lbs
1: 55 lbs
2/0: 70 lbs
5/0: 100 lbs
  
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mastertangler
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Re: 2-Part Question
Reply #31 - Mar 11th, 2014 at 4:47pm
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ST asks if you can use a loop knot so you can just connect a snap to one end.

It is the key question IMO for lures that don't spin (spoons and spinners).....crankbaits being the obvious example where just a snap would be the preferred presentation coming off the lure as opposed to swivel/snap combo which just adds additional hardware with no benefit.

My preference is a high quality snap at one end and a premium ball bearing swivel at the other. Why ball bearing? Who knows.......I just gravitate toward the good stuff thinking in the long run it will save me some grief......fishing has enough hassles without tangles in your line caused by some cheap swivel Tongue.

And my choice for securing the wire to a snap would definitely be a loop knot. If you scroll down (left) to the short video presentation the demonstrator suggests the perfection loop knot but also acknowledges other knots that do work.

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I have used the perfection loop for many years and like the knot in certain situations and find it unrivaled as far as loop knots go. (it also performs excellently with Florocarbon).

I have yet to acquire some of the wire so I cannot speak with any authority as to connections. I tend to pull pretty hard when testing stuff....(you will be testing your leaders, won't you?)....I will be curious to give the wire a shot. I am particularly eager to use the wire with jigging spoon applications as the flexibility of the wire seems very suitable for that usage.

For lures that do spin (like spoons) I highly suggest ball bearing swivels at each end. Ball bearing with incorporated snap at the lure end and ball bearing barrel at the other end.  
  
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solotripper
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Re: 2-Part Question
Reply #32 - Mar 11th, 2014 at 5:14pm
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Sounds good. I do know about the Perfection Loop knot.
The other advice makes sense.
Thx.
  
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mastertangler
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Re: 2-Part Question
Reply #33 - Mar 11th, 2014 at 5:30pm
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I looked at several utube videos showing the knot and this was probably best.

I tend to have a slightly different approach however....I take the tag end, loop the line behind itself and pinch with thumb.........then I slide whatever hardware I want to incorporate onto the tag end and let it rest against my thumb while I finish the knot. You must "feed" the snap or hook or jighead through the opening and close the knot with your running line. It can be trimmed very close indeed.

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If the ad for the Grand budapest hotel movie comes on check it out. Looks like a hoot.
  
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solotripper
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Re: 2-Part Question
Reply #34 - Mar 11th, 2014 at 7:10pm
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IF your a little slow on the knot tying like I am, then this might be a good way to learn at your "own" speed.

Either do the slow 1 step at a time forward/backward or view the video.

A great single resource for knots for all occasions.

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mastertangler
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Re: 2-Part Question
Reply #35 - Mar 12th, 2014 at 3:41am
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The perfection loop is multi purpose. It can be used to make loop to loop connections as per use in fly fishing. In such an application no hardware is attached and consequently the above link is not particularly useful in our discussion and may serve to complicate matters for those who might try their hand at the knot.

It is easily tied. Be sure to make use of your thumb and forefinger as a "clamp" of sorts. The clamp is employed twice. Once in the initial stages of the knot when the initial loop is made. And again after going around the thumb and then downward in front of the initial loop. It is at this juncture you may release the knot having captured it (clamped).

Then you can enlarge the loop to be able feed the hook or swivel through the original loop. Adjust the size of the loop you want with the tag end but you must tighten the main line only to secure the knot. It is not called the perfection loop for nothing. You may trim the tag end as close as you desire.

This guy makes it look easy (and it is Wink )
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Kingfisher
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Re: 2-Part Question
Reply #36 - Mar 12th, 2014 at 4:38am
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If you guys don't have the wire in your hands it's probably a waste of time to be thinking about knots. This is wierd stuff and there will be knot instruction on the package. Best to go that route first. Even the clinch knot they reccommend does NOT draw up like a typical fishing line knot.

Even crankbaits twist and twirl when they are cast so consider that when deciding to eliminate the swivels.
  
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Puckster
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Re: 2-Part Question
Reply #37 - Mar 12th, 2014 at 12:37pm
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Yesterday I bought the wire and swivels at Ft. Myer's Bass Pro Shop.  As KF says, lots of good diagrams of knots on the back of the package.  Now the work begins.

KF, I'll be over to your place soon.   Smiley

prouboy
  
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mastertangler
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Re: 2-Part Question
Reply #38 - Mar 12th, 2014 at 1:04pm
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Kingfisher wrote on Mar 12th, 2014 at 4:38am:
If you guys don't have the wire in your hands it's probably a waste of time to be thinking about knots. This is wierd stuff and there will be knot instruction on the package. Best to go that route first. Even the clinch knot they reccommend does NOT draw up like a typical fishing line knot

Even crankbaits twist and twirl when they are cast so consider that when deciding to eliminate the swivels.


Your not hearing me. The perfection loop is what they suggest. I posted the link earlier. I have used the clinch type knots with titanium wire before and was less than impressed. Granted I was using it with salt water fish who pull 10x harder but the knot was still clunky and suspect and was inconsistent and occasionally failed (operator error perhaps?). I quit using it and went back to single strand wire.

Why not try the loop knot and test it? It ties up very small and neatly and I can probably tie one faster than a clinch. If there is a better way why not be open? But is it better?......I don't know for sure but I try and stay open......it is, after all, their product and it is what they suggest (at least in their promo vid) so I will give it a try and report back.

As per your lure twisting and turning even on casts I couldn't agree more.....sooner or later it will catch up with you....that is the reason I go with ball bearing barrel swivels at the line tie end....... and just one is plenty on cranks IMO.

 
  
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solotripper
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Re: 2-Part Question
Reply #39 - Mar 12th, 2014 at 2:32pm
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Thanks KF.
I'll take your advice considering you brought this item to our attention and have the most freshwater fishing experience with it.

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In such an application no hardware is attached and consequently the above link is not particularly useful in our discussion and may serve to complicate matters for those who might try their hand at the knot.


Why don't we let people determine that for themselves?
That video with clear line isn't the easiest to see/absorb IF you've never seen/tied that knot.

I use an old shoelace to tie any new knot I'm interested in using. Easy to see and work with compared to thin monofilament or braid.

If you can master the basic knot at your own pace sans hardware, it would seem to me that seeing it tied in a short video with hardware would be easier, but then that might just be me.
  
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