25 Fireplace TP? (Read 24090 times)
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Re: Fireplace TP?
Reply #10 - Sep 8th, 2014 at 6:02am
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That cork idea (is room for a logo?) sounds pretty good on a rainy morning. Some rocks are not to be disturbed.

What would used TP dug out of the ground with claws look like? I'm guessing not like PJ's pic and quite frankly, I've seen that same configuration on a tent pad so be careful what you wish for.

I'd prefer not to see someone else's TP anywhere but I'd much rather see it in the woods like that where all I had to do is take a stick and poke it in the duff. I don't want it in my freaken fireplace. It's not welcome tinder! Looks a lot like char cloth if undisturbed.

I take pride in leaving a nice campsite for the next traveler but I've now totally stopped dealing with any TP that I don't have to. I don't know if this is a rule as of yet but it sure is dumb IMO. The only way I can justify it is the hope was people would rather poke it in the duff than share it with the group at breakfast. I was on a solo. I'd have a much harder time coming back and handing my TP to the chef saying here you go, I don't want to mess up your fire up. Burn it with the bacon grease or sumpting.

I don't ever recall finding a recently used hole by accident. Personally, I'd rather disturb a little TP in the duff as a warning to look elsewhere if that area that looked promising and undesturbed - wasn't.

I knew a girl, experienced in dryer locations… asked me if they should bring their TP back to burn at night since there was a fire ban … eeew. I told her to poke it. I know people do things I wouldn't and I trust her and ST to do it safely and to be able to discern the difference. I just couldn't see recommending it to others who think leaving it in the fireplace for others to burn is what the rules suggest. And yes I blamed women. Now, I take that back. I blame the group that left it and especially the name on the permit. I carry bacon grease to the next campsite even if fish isn't on the menu knowing I'll be drinking instant coffee..

On the plus side, I didn't mind picking/packing out other people's foil bits or chunks this year. Wink
  
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solotripper
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Re: Fireplace TP?
Reply #11 - Sep 8th, 2014 at 12:21pm
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There is plenty of air under ground to sustain fire. One of the ways forest fires travel is by burning underground, following a tree's root system.


That's true, but you need enough of a heat source to ignite any combustible material that you may find underground.

On a river trip in Northern Ontario when I was still a group paddler, we came upon a site right on the river where some paddlers/fishermen ahead of us had made a fire pit on a little peninsula that jutted out into the river.

Problem was the soil over the root system was barely enough to cover the roots/rocks.
The hot campfire settled into the fire pit, even though from the surface it looked like the coals were out.
When we came upon it, there was smoke coming out of numerous holes in the ground and at the base of a few small trees.

We spent an hour or so pouring water down every smoking hole we could find. We left wondering if it had been enough but we saw no smoke later in the day and when we got out and told the outfitter where the site was at, he said they had no reports on a fire in the area.

You can satisfy your curiosity or prove me dead wrong in your own back yard if anyone has a mind too?
Dig a small cat hole in a moist area, ignite 2 pieces of facial tissue and after they burn, cover with dirt and tamp the soil down tight.

No-WAY in Hell there is enough heat from 2 burned Kleenex to ignite a root system in moist conditions.

MP makes a valid point, no matter how you deal with the TP issue, or the laws they make, how are you going to enforce it or police the Yahoos or Newbie's?

I'd bet 90% of ALL campers are afraid after dark in a setting like Quetico/BWCA to venture much more than a few feet away from their tent after dark and no way their going in the bush to do their business.

One good thing about the Q, with the ability to stay anywhere you can set-up a camp, you can avoid overused areas much more than in the BW.

I don't mind doing a little "house keeping" but I'm not spending hours cleaning up someone's mess, especially if that mess involves fecal matter. Tongue
  
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mastertangler
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Re: Fireplace TP?
Reply #12 - Sep 8th, 2014 at 12:53pm
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I get how partially burnt TP in a fire ring could cause some to turn up their nose. But I'm thinking the only repercussions with thoroughly burnt TP is only in the mind.

I like a sparkling clean site and it is pretty common for me to make an actual fire every evening (and sometimes in the morning before I leave) to consume any garbage and TP. I would not advocate trying to completely burn TP with just a flick of a bic, not happening IMO most of the time.
  
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Mad_Mat
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Re: Fireplace TP?
Reply #13 - Sep 8th, 2014 at 1:01pm
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"The new rules to burn your TP is making it harder for those who follow the rules while trying to solve a non-problem."

I don't believe that that is an official rule, rather that it is a suggested, preferred method

I'm a catholer, and just bury well away from water.  The messes I've seen are just from people who don't make any attempt at all to dig a hole and bury, just crap and leave the paper wherever, including right in the middle of a campsite.  I don't believe that that is from ignorance - just freaking lazy S.O.B.s who would do the same, regardless of what the rules are. 

don't have a current version handy, the one I found quickly is QPP 2008 Wilderness Guide - in that is a section for "rules & regulations": nothing about sanitation at all in there, other than in the paragraph on litter:  Pack out all non-burnable garbage, including tinfoil".  You may not leave any litter in a provincvial park...., Likewise, you must keep your interior campsite clean and sanitary at all times."

from the same wilderness guide, section titled "No Trace Camping" = Toiletries: This is something that is becoming an issue and we ask that you take extra care in selecting and covering your latrine area.  First select a spot 60 to 100 meters from your camp and shoreline.  Remove the sod layer and dig a hole, 10 to 15cm or 4 to 6 inches deep.  Immediately after use replace the soil and put the sod back.  Make sure to bury, burn within the firepit or carry out the paper.  Improper sanitation is one of the most preventable problems in the backcountry.  Please help keep it clean.


whoever wrote that has obviously never tried to dig a cathole in spruce roots - sod? ain't no sod, just moss and duff.

in any case, I don't think anything has changed in that pamphlet - if anyone has a current version, and it is different than what I've typed above, let us know.
  I
  
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mastertangler
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Re: Fireplace TP?
Reply #14 - Sep 8th, 2014 at 1:51pm
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In the Quetico I had always just scooped out as best a hole as I could and covered. In Woodland Caribou that isn't always possible as there is more rock and not so much soil so I thought I might as well take it back and burn the stuff. When I had completed the task I thought, hmmm, easy enough. Probably will be SOP (standard operating procedure) from now on, for sure when I am solo.
  
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solotripper
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Re: Fireplace TP?
Reply #15 - Sep 8th, 2014 at 4:12pm
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I would not advocate trying to completely burn TP with just a flick of a bic, not happening IMO most of the time.


Have you actually tried it?
Unless your using a wad of TP big enough to choke a toilet like many kids do, a few pieces of TP or a couple of Kleenex tissue burn in a matter of seconds.

Might not be for everyone, but regardless of how you take care of the TP, burn/bury or pack out, it's just the decent thing to do IF you have any regard for your fellow paddlers.

But, like M_M said, it's more than likely the same type of slobs who can't seem to flush the toilet behind them in public or private rest rooms.
I don't know how you deal with that mindset, at least not in a way that wouldn't get me life in prison. Wink
  
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zski
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Re: Fireplace TP?
Reply #16 - Sep 8th, 2014 at 5:04pm
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i've been very cautiously burning it in the cat hole.
  
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Spartan2
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Re: Fireplace TP?
Reply #17 - Sep 8th, 2014 at 6:01pm
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[/quote]

One good thing about the Q, with the ability to stay anywhere you can set-up a camp, you can avoid overused areas much more than in the BW.

I don't mind doing a little "house keeping" but I'm not spending hours cleaning up someone's mess, especially if that mess involves fecal matter. Tongue [/quote]


In the BW you don't encounter this problem because there is a place to do your business.  In 42 years of BWCA camping I have never once found TP in the fire area, and only on one occasion can I remember policing it up from around a campsite (a mess behind a big rock on a well-used site on Sawbill--didn't involve feces.)  TP in the fire area?  Doesn't sound very palatable to me.  May not be a health hazard, but still. . .I cook there!   Tongue

But we were told by some USFS firemen we chanced to meet on, coincidentally, Fire Lake  Wink that they had just finished extinguishing a fire that had been smoldering for days in the duff.  They said people have no idea how a little spark can sometimes lie dormant in the duff and later ignite and smolder for a long time, eventually igniting into a wildfire.

When away from a latrine (or when I was camping in the Q, admittedly many years ago) I dug a cat hole and buried.  I guess if I were to go there today I would still do that.  I certainly wouldn't leave a mess for others.

But I don't think I would burn.  In the hole or in the fire, either.  Ick.
  
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mastertangler
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Re: Fireplace TP?
Reply #18 - Sep 8th, 2014 at 7:00pm
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solotripper wrote on Sep 8th, 2014 at 4:12pm:
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I would not advocate trying to completely burn TP with just a flick of a bic, not happening IMO most of the time.


Have you actually tried it?


Well actually I have.

Depending on absorbency rates and volume of material absorbed as well as atmospheric conditions and barometer and of course altitude and lets not forget wind speed and direction paper consumption may be less than desired.

Interpretation..... The blasted stuff doesn't always burn completely because there is a pile of sh$t on it and the wind blows it out.

So, stick a rock on what's left and burn it with the rest of the garbage later. Easy enough.
  
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intrepid_camper
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Re: Fireplace TP?
Reply #19 - Sep 8th, 2014 at 7:37pm
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Unless the TP is buried deep the squirrels and small animals often dig it up and scatter it around.
  
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