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 10 Savage River Composite Boats at Ely Outfitter (Read 17754 times)
Rocky
Inukshuk
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Re: Savage River Composite Boats at Ely Outfitter
Reply #10 - Jul 13th, 2015 at 6:07pm
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When we first tested the Blackhawk, it was a really windy day. We started very carefully because we knew our MNII would be very tippy in those waves. The Blackhawk handled the waves so well that we gradually kept turning until the waves were hitting the canoe broadside and it was fine, very stable.  When going directly into the wind and waves, the front end seems to slice through the waves instead of bouncing up and down.  I've paddled through some big waves many times.  I'm not sure exactly how tall the waves were but they were big and I didn't notice any water coming in.
  
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azalea
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Re: Savage River Composite Boats at Ely Outfitter
Reply #11 - Jul 13th, 2015 at 8:42pm
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You guys are making this difficult to follow.  Referring to a manufacturer as SR when the two predominate ones under discussion are Souris River and Savage River is frying my brain.  Cheesy
  
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Westwood
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Re: Savage River Composite Boats at Ely Outfitter
Reply #12 - Jul 13th, 2015 at 10:46pm
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Azalea,
You college professors are just too picky.  No need to define your terms when everyone knows what you are talking about.
  
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Solus
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Re: Savage River Composite Boats at Ely Outfitter
Reply #13 - Jul 14th, 2015 at 6:09am
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Sorry Azelea- I used SR to refer to Souris River only. Was answering Solotripper's question and lost track that the original inquiry was about Savage River (I would like my next boat to be a Savage River Blackwater, in carbon fiber please).
  
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portage dog
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Re: Savage River Composite Boats at Ely Outfitter
Reply #14 - Sep 7th, 2015 at 8:50pm
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About two months ago, I posted this info about Savage River canoes available to rent for BW/Q trips at Williams & Hall.  Well, I took two of them out on a 10 day trip July 29-Aug. 7 into Quetico – one Blackhawk and one Deep Creek model.  Here’s a review of both and a few pics (if I can get that figured out....). 

Both canoes were in their Carbon/Kevlar layup.  Weight is 34 lbs. and 32 lbs. respectively (see all specs on Savage River’s website) and they seemed to be in pretty stock/standard trim.  Neither boat had float tanks nor decks – just an observation, was not an issue.  Thwarts were aluminum tubing except the ash yoke, which was glassed (?) into the hull and not removable.  The outfitter added Wenonah style sling pads.  There are no ‘outer gunnels’, just smooth all the way up.  The actual ‘inner’ gunnel was a 3/8” x 1” foam core strip with the carbon fiber just wrapped up and over it.  I actually preferred this over the typical aluminum rail – much more comfortable on the legs when braced against them, though not much to grab onto when portaging.

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The Blackhawk sported sliding bow and stern tractor seats with their padding and they were surprisingly comfortable.  I generally prefer flat seats, but I would take the boat with these as first choice, having spent some time in them. They did not have seat stops such as the Wenonah’s, but this was never a problem.  The seat tube clearance was tight enough to not slide around, but loose enough to adjust easily by shifting weight.  The Deep Creek had fixed, contoured wood/web seats and were comfortable enough. 

The Deep Creek is shaped like your standard canoe and at 16’6”, easily handled two full standard ‘food pack’ sized packs and a BJW Guide pack between the front seat and rear thwart.  The Blackhawk has pinched in gunnels at the bow and stern, more like a racing canoe, that allows the paddler to get the paddle closer to the centerline, reducing ‘torque steer’ and a more perpendicular stroke – less reaching.  In the stern, I found this not an issue, with plenty of leg room ahead of the pinched area.  In the bow, your legs are pretty much stretched out straight or anywhere up to straight up, but you cannot splay your knees.  It would not likely be comfortable for wider or rounder paddlers.  At 18’, it easily swallowed the Granite Gear #4 (with 2 – 30L barrels in it…my food pack), a CCS Pioneer pack and a BWJ Guide pack.  All that, plus 5 rods, a tackle bag and spare paddle each. 

Both canoes paddled exceptionally well and as expected, with the light weight, accelerate very quickly.  With zero rocker, I was surprised how easily they turned, as well as a boat with 1.5” rocker at either end, much like my Bell Northwind 17 (2.5 front, 1.5 rear).  They were very maneuverable when needed, yet tracked very straight with no added effort.  They also both handled superbly in rough water.  On day one, we crossed Bailey Bay with some serious wind and waves coming up the length of Basswood from the southwest.  There were 2-3 foot rollers and white caps and the bow of each boat had some very nervous and inexperienced paddlers.  They were very controllable and quartered nicely.  Neither canoe shipped any appreciable amount of water, even with those large waves and we crossed uneventfully. 

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How did they handle the wear and tear?  Well, as you can imagine, portaging them was a dream, they are so light.  The difference between them and the Minn II’s we usually take was very noticeable.  The inside finish has a ‘tooth’ to it and a very non-slip feel – a difference from the Wenonah’s and my Bell that I liked a lot.  We did not pamper these canoes, but did not abuse them either.  We wet foot the portage landings, but also caught our fair share of submerged rocks on the hull, a few rather violently.  They took the abuse as well as the Kevlar with the expected scrapes and scratches; however one downside to the carbon fiber – like black paint on a car, it shows everything.  One thing we noticed on the hull was some dimpling.  Where it got caught on a rock and there was some weight in the canoe, the hull actually deformed a slight bit from the pressure.  Savage River’s web site suggests for ‘rocky rivers and whitewater, add another layer of Kevlar in the bottom’.  If I were buying a canoe or if were the outfitter, I would have this added to the canoes.  It might add a pound or two, but would be worth it, I feel.  For an outfitter, I might also ask about some integral skid pads in the bow (and maybe stern) like Wenonah does. 

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Overall, I very much enjoyed paddling AND portaging these canoes.  They performed exceptionally well and I will definitely use them again, given the option.  I cannot think of anywhere the canoes disappointed or fell short of expectations and were well worth the extra couple of bucks a day rental.  If I were in the market for a new canoe for tripping, I would definitely look hard at the Savage River canoes. They are on the pricier side, but you get what you pay for.   For those out there that want to rent one for a trip, Blayne at Williams and Hall said he plans to add some more for next year’s season.  Interestingly, we saw a Deep Creek canoe in the TexTreme layup on top of a car in their parking lot, likely headed out the next day on a trip. 

pd
  
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Jim J Solo
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Re: Savage River Composite Boats at Ely Outfitter
Reply #15 - Sep 15th, 2015 at 2:03pm
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If anyone ever buys a boat from Savage River, John can coach you on removing the dimples. You use a heat gun on the area to expand the air in the foam core. Don't over do it or you'll create a blister bulging out, do it in stages.
Also if you want something special other than stock, talk to John.
  
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outdoors4me
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Re: Savage River Composite Boats at Ely Outfitter
Reply #16 - Oct 5th, 2015 at 3:09am
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Potage dog - How did they compare to the MNII, speed wise? Which model did you like better?
  
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portage dog
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Re: Savage River Composite Boats at Ely Outfitter
Reply #17 - Oct 11th, 2015 at 6:20pm
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OD4me,

For any given canoe (or boat for that matter), a longer, more narrow hull will always be a 'faster' boat.  The MNII would be technically faster on paper.  That said, most paddlers will not approach or at least be able to maintain max hull speed.  I feel like I was able to keep up a more aggressive pace with the Blackhawk over the MNII.  I attribute that to a 25-30% (depending on layup and which figures you use) reduction in mass over the MNII and the Blackhawk's pinched gunnels.  It's race inspired design means your strokes are more parallel to the centerline, resulting in a more efficient stroke.  I only paddled the Deep Creek unloaded while fishing, but still a great canoe.  It compares closely to the Wenonah Spirit II in size/shape.  I am a stern paddler and I liked the design of the Blackhawk.  I would choose it over any of these canoes with the Deep Creek being a second.  I'm not sure would have been able to stand an entire trip in the bow with the narrow gunnels, but then I don't care to paddle bow in any canoe.  I also really liked the padded sliding tractor seats. 

Incidentally, Williams and Hall just redesigned their website and they now have rates for the tandem carbon fiber canoes at $54 per day, $7 more than a Kevlar boat.  That's only $35 more per person for a 10 day trip and a bargain for the weight savings you get, IMHO. 

pd
  
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outdoors4me
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Re: Savage River Composite Boats at Ely Outfitter
Reply #18 - Oct 12th, 2015 at 1:48am
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Thanks PD. I appreciate the info.
  
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Solus
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Re: Savage River Composite Boats at Ely Outfitter
Reply #19 - Oct 12th, 2015 at 1:53am
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I can't see the weight difference being a factor in determining the hull speed. The 10 to 15# is insignificant when you consider the weight of the loaded canoe. If it's a faster boat it would be due to hull shape and ease of paddling- not weight.

The weight difference is significant when you are under the boat, not when you are in it.
  
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