"Go here and all your questions will be answered for you.  Wink Grin Grin
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Forum member Solotripper posted this in a recent thread and it got me thinking this question - Does knowing every detail about campsites, portages, weather, etc. ahead of time take away from the adventure of it all?

I started tripping as many of you have in the prehistoric world before the internet.  I can remember getting into Ely in the 80's or 90's and buying a local paper just to have the latest weather forecast before my put in the next day.  I remember closely reading the few books available for any reference to decent campsites. 

But what I remember the most is the total uncertainty of it all as I shoved off away from my entry point.  The high sense of adventure on a solo in the mid 80's totally out of my comfort zone and relying on my camping skills to keep me safe.  There were no PLB's either.

So my question is about technology and has it dulled our sense of adventure because we can use google earth or read details about campsites at paddle planner or listen to the local weather while on the trip.  Was it better to not know all this ahead of time and discover things more like Lewis and Clark did? 

Sorry!  By the early '80's, I was already using personal computing to enhance my outdoor experiences (backpacking in the Rockies at that time).

My first personal purchase was a desktop unit ... a full blown Radio Shack TRS-80.  It was the first (and last) time I dropped $10K on personal computing, but since I was using it for a number of writing projects it was ultimately a business write off.  To that I added a 4-disk floppy drive bay, a Daisy wheel printer (think of an IBM Selectric with the ball flattened) and a flatbed plotter.

My wife was a beneficiary of this technology as she produced her dissertation on it.  (I was still "old school" at that time and had an IBM Selectric.)

Next came a dial-up modem, and by the mid-80's when I was doing a lot of flying, I added a "laptop computer" rather than have "dead time in the air.  This unit was a NEC PC 8300 series device (first released in '83).

Of course, before the internet there was ARPANET, let by DARPA (a Navy Research consortium of military, corporate and university entities).  E-mail came along followed shortly by FTP (file transfer protocol) which made data sharing easier.

Being a backpacker, I very soon became interested in add of the publically available data held/managed by the USGS.  Before long I was downloading data samples of various file formats to investigate content.  I finally found a data format that would give me the data to build topographic maps of virtually anywhere in the US.  However, I then either had to write the software to display the results or find someone who had already done that leg work. 

After a bit of sniffing around, I did find a source willing to share their software ... the U.S. Naval Academy.  Initially, I was scratching my head as to why the navy needed topo maps, but I soon realized this tool was not being used a lot by the SURFACE fleet.  So, after receiving the software and doing a little hand waving to get the data to match up to the software, I started producing topo maps.  It was only then I discovered that there were no rivers and lakes on the maps (although they were clearly designated in the data).  It didn't take long to come to an understanding of why that was ... all the landscape for the Navy topos is UNDERWATER! 

This deficit not withstanding, I did discover a feature in the software that was not specifically mentioned when I asked for it.  Once you developed a topo, you could then plot a route and trigger the "Fly By" option and the software would create a wire-frame image of the terrain and "fly" you through it.  Kind of cool for a piece of software that dated from the early '90's. 

Did I ever use the software for a backpacking trip.  The answer is yes. Doing research for a trip schedule to be along the East Clear Creek trail out of Eagle Colorado,  I was able to run down a local or two who knew the trail.  They described it as a "bit rugged."  So, I located the data for the area and generated a topo and did a fly-by of the valley route we'd take.  I was impressed by the near vertical walls on both sides of our track for much of the distance we'd travel.  I just wanted to be sure we would be able to camp below 10,000 feet and that option was established (although we'd climb to above 12,000 just poking around on day trips.

So, how rugged was the area.  (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links) describes the crash of an Air Force plane on Gold Dust Peak (which we could see on our trip) that happened in April '97.  We were there late September '96.  The report outlines some of the resources brought to bear during the 3-week search for the crash site.  So, yeah ... I'd say rugged!

dd

That's hilarious about your father Mossback.  But that's just how it was.  I would go on a fishing trip with my dad as a kid where we would rent a cabin about 8 hours from home.  I remember sending postcards back to my family and scribbling what we were doing on them.

BTW - I got an inreach text from Jimbo yesterday.  It said Welcome from island camp on Veron Lake and he described the site a bit.  So, instead of asking questions and starting a dialogue I simply congratulated him for getting there and wished him a good time.  IMO text conversations should be minimal when out in the "wilderness".  You lose that "feeling" if you have cell talk with the outside world.  Jimbo is with Magic Paddler and MPeebles I believe.  Their goal is to visit Delahey.  Jimbo said he was going to use his net and just scoop up the lakers.   

A good discussion Tom T. I also canoed for many years without the benefit of technology and enjoyed my trips. Most of the time I was never concerned about finding campsites because I knew that we would find something suitable for the party. Most of the parties I led were 4-8 persons. We always caught enough fish to have a few meals.

I started using technology in the 90’s but didn’t discover websites like QJ until shortly before I joined. Technology can be helpful, but it also can build a false reliance. The only technology that really made a difference in my trips is the fish finder. I discovered a whole new world under the surface of the lakes I travelled. Even if only passing through, I would turn it on to see what we were paddling over. Most lakes were trolled unless we were in a hurry.

Unfortunately, my health has declined to the point where I am no longer able to do canoe trips. My last attempts drove this point home to me. I still enjoy hearing and reading about the experiences of others.

On the issue of using campsite and portage data, the horses are out of the barn. Too much info can cause funneling and overuse. I used to share this info but quit about a decade ago when I revisited some campsites I had shared info about and saw severe degradation and abuse. I will still share via email or text to those I know and trust.

I agree with Old Salt that the fish finder changed the way I fish.  I don't use the devise to find fish, but to know how the structure changes and how deep the water is.  I don't bother with weather forecasts as I get what information I need by looking at the sky.  I do not take anything to keep in touch with home as that changes the tone and feel of a trip.  But I don't begrudge someone else using whatever technologies they want.