Poll
Poll closed Question: How severe is Covid-19 as measured by hospital admitions
*** This poll has now closed ***


Not as severe as the normal seasonal influenza    
  0 (0.0%)
About the same as normal seasonal influenza    
  0 (0.0%)
More severe than the normal seasonal influenza    
  2 (33.3%)
The most severe infectious disease in the last 10    
  4 (66.7%)




Total votes: 6
« Created by: Magicpaddler on: Apr 16th, 2020 at 6:23pm »

 25 If you’re bored... (Read 29382 times)
zski
Inukshuk
Offline



Posts: 447
Location: IL
Joined: Sep 30th, 2010
Re: If you’re bored...
Reply #110 - Apr 23rd, 2020 at 1:15am
Quote Quote Print Post Print Post  
So sorry MP...
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
azalea
Inukshuk
Offline



Posts: 1084
Location: North Carolina
Joined: Jan 13th, 2004
Re: If you’re bored...
Reply #111 - May 2nd, 2020 at 8:23pm
Quote Quote Print Post Print Post  
I am a bit late to this party, but wanted to comment on something from far earlier; the news.  I consider myself more objective than most and am certainly not easily molded into being left or right.  Most of fox news is REALLY bad (as news).  Something caused me to take a look at a couple of T Carlson pieces recently and although the general tone of the piece seemed reasonable when one looked closely, it was a masterful collection of distortion techniques.  This was not just a biased presentation.  It was a purposeful attempt to distort.  I find either that skillful distortion or just plain bias the norm on Fox (I suspect MSNBC is similar but do not watch it enough to say).

My wife and I typically watch the prime time news each night.  Until recently that was NBC. Any of the big-3 will give a newcast not at all like those on the 24-hour news outlets.  But it was not Walter Cronkite.  I finally convinced my wife to allows us to try Fox's prime time newscast (with Brett Baier).  We found it much better.  Unlike most of the rest of the stuff on Fox, I find it has decently objective reporting. You do see some biases but that is hard to avoid.  Particularly on their panel segment (example, discussing the two-faced response by Dems to Bidens SA accuser, while ignoring the equally two-faced response by the GOP).  One advantage that report has it is an hour long.  So they have time to do more than a sound-bite look at some of the issues of the day.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
solotripper
Inukshuk
Offline



Posts: 8103
Location: clarkston MI
Joined: Mar 14th, 2005
Re: If you’re bored...
Reply #112 - May 3rd, 2020 at 3:45pm
Quote Quote Print Post Print Post  
Quote:
Most of fox news is REALLY bad (as news).


  I disagree about FOX news being BAD for the most part. I've watched them all and for domestic news sources, they are much more fair and balanced than MOST other cable news outlets.

  You referenced Tucker Carlson, who I watch regulary. I like his show overall BUT the key here is he, Hannity, Ingraham/Levin, Judge Jeanne and the rest of them make NO bones about being Partisan RIGHT on their shows. They will tell the listener they are OPINION people.

  Brett Baier is the head NEWS anchor. He presents the KNOWN facts and lets the viewer make up their own minds.  You WON'T see him make speculations/accusations on his news show.

  He's often the guest on the OPINION shows and if asked he'll give HIS opinion which in that context is okay to do IMHO.

  You watch the other news outlets. They swing hard to the Left. I don't mind that they do, what I mind is when the so-called "news" people interview guests who are often giving THEIR opinions which the "news" people take and PRESENT as facts because what they hear is how they PERSONALLY feel about the subject/person.

  Watch a WH briefing live as it happens. Forget how you feel about the President. Just listen to the words and the CONTEXT of what he's saying.

Then go to CNN/MSNBC etc and listen to what they TELL you he said.  Huh

  It is more often than not so FAR from what he actually said, the context it was said in, etc you wouldn't even know you had just heard it yourself.

  I wouldn't mind that IF they were presenting themselves as OPINION people rather than straight news people.

  Back in the Cronkite days, you had only a few people, older trusted types who at the end of a broadcast would give THEIR opinion on something.
   They made sure everyone knew it WAS an opinion piece too.

  Nowadays you have 4-5 "news" people, a few guests and they ALL present opinions as facts and the "news" people rarely challenge what the guests say UNLESS the guest is a Conservative.

You watch FOX regularly and they have Liberal guests on ALL the time. They are often challenged BUT for the most part they get a fair chance to speak.

We ALL have the right to our opinion, sometimes we are ACTUALLY qualified based on the subject to give it. The problem is when you present YOUR opinion as being the INDISPUTABLE facts, case closed, based NOT on facts but your biased personal opinion.

  That's why the Liberal news outlets have to RETRACT so many of their headlines. They hear something that confirms THEIR biases and the rush it onto the breaking news. You rarely see that on FOX, because of the NEWS people who keep to the known and VERIFIABLE facts.

  NOTHING makes me angrier than having ANY news source/ so-called journalist "explain" to me that what I just heard someone say ISN'T really what they said and what I thought they meant ISN'T that either.

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Solus
Inukshuk
Offline



Posts: 967
Location: Northern Minnesota
Joined: Oct 6th, 2006
Re: If you’re bored...
Reply #113 - May 3rd, 2020 at 6:20pm
Quote Quote Print Post Print Post  
Again- by and large television is a terrible source of factual information. The goal is sell not inform. Study after study has shown that people that garner their information from television news are likely to believe things that simply aren't true.

A recent survey found:
"Perhaps most interesting were the results based on where Americans got their news. Those who claimed Fox News was one of their top two sources for political news, believed Trump‘s false claims 33 percent of the time, compared to 21 percent of those who say Fox News is not one of their primary news sources.

The same is true of those who count on MSNBC or CNN as one (or both) as their top two news sources. While they’re more likely to be able to spot Trump falsehoods, 44 percent of MSNBC viewers, and 40 percent of CNN viewers believe false Democratic claims.

The best informed group, according to the results, were those who relied on old-fashioned public radio, like NPR, or traditional print publications, like the New York Times, Wall Street Journal, The Economics, or WaPo. Only 16 percent of those citing public radio as one of their two primary political news sources believed the same false statements, the most informed of any group in the poll, followed only by those consuming news from print publications, at 17 percent.

The takeaway? Cable news networks, perhaps, aren’t the best place to get your news, nor are fringe online publications. Those of us who are best informed, according to this poll at least, are reading local and national print publications, and listening to a lot of NPR."

The goal of news consumption should be to inform of what IS- not what we want or think should be true. I see a good deal of Fox news day in and day out when I'm at work- thank god I don't have to say the same of MSNBC and CNN. Watching FOX is like watching news from the Hunger Games movies; even the makeup and characters are the same.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
solotripper
Inukshuk
Offline



Posts: 8103
Location: clarkston MI
Joined: Mar 14th, 2005
Re: If you’re bored...
Reply #114 - May 3rd, 2020 at 7:04pm
Quote Quote Print Post Print Post  
NPR, The New York Times and WaPo are so LEFT leaning anything they say IMHO opinion has INHERENT bias built right in.

  I see FOX people AND Liberal guest commentators REGULARLY going after President Trump. They get FREE rein in doing it too. They even have LIBERAL commentators like Juan Williams, Donna Brazile and Jessica Tarlov among MANY others going Hard after President Trump.

  I see little of NONE of that on the other media outlets. On TV they shout the Conservative guest down. In PRINT media they twist/misquote/or leave out the WHOLE statement to push their own political/social agenda.

  That's my personal view and I'm far from being alone.

At least this "news" reporter apologized for getting the "facts" wrong. You hardly ever see the PRINT media correct themselves after publishing erroneous stories.

IF they do it's on a BACK page that hardly mitigates the DAMAGE they did by printing a story WITHOUT verifying it just to be first to get a story out.

  I'm not saying the President doesn't say wrong things or dumb things. I'm saying the media often doesn't just fact check him, they turn it into an OPINION piece to push a LIBERAL agenda under the guise of just reporting the facts.

Watch the Richard Jewell movie (Atlanta Bomber) read the actual news and you'll see how the media is QUICK to destroy but very slow to admit they were wrong and make someone whole again IF even possible.

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
azalea
Inukshuk
Offline



Posts: 1084
Location: North Carolina
Joined: Jan 13th, 2004
Re: If you’re bored...
Reply #115 - May 3rd, 2020 at 8:26pm
Quote Quote Print Post Print Post  
solotripper wrote on May 3rd, 2020 at 3:45pm:
  I disagree about FOX news being BAD for the most part.


I guess I disagree on what constitutes BAD news.  On the basics we seemed to agreee that it has all these commentator shows and it has Brett.  I said Brett's show was good, in fact that was the point of my post.

As I said, the problem with the commentators is they are not just giving their opinion.  They are distorting facts to slant facts to fit a desired conclusion.  I will give a specific example with carlson. This is not a one-off.  (I watched O-reilly regularly and he was a master of it.)

It was a piece on why we need voter id. Please note, that is an idea I agree with.  Here are some things from that carlson piece.   "it is likely that no policitian has ever amassed a record more embarassing or less empressive than the current governor of that state, Klan Robes Black face."  So he starts with a statement like it is fact where at best it is a hyperbolic opinion.  He concludes with an ad-hominem attack. That to me is not GOOD journalistic opinion. And he is just getting started. In talking about voting by mail, he states "and of course it  ..  ends our democracy".  There are valid argument against voter-id, that is more hyperbole and to me that is BAD news and goes beyond bias. He goes on to play a series of clips by Dems complaing about voter supression imcluding one discussing gerrymandering.  Carlson response to those clips, "everything you have just heard is a complete and provable lie".  Well one might have the opinion that some of those things are lies but certainly not all of them are provably false.  Gerrymandering is provably a fact (the courts just found it true in NC as one example in my home state) and Carlson knows that. Again that is a know technique, push guolt by association. He goes on, "they [government IDs] are mandatory". Again false. They are for some things but so is a library card mandatory for some things.  He then goes on to list things they require a government ID and that list includes getting a job.  Well the only ID for getting a job is a SS card.  He is arguing for people needing a photo-id to vote.  That government ID he is stating you need for get a job is not a goverment ID that would allow you to vote.  This to a logic argument is the equivalent to a shell game, a swith-a-roo.  It is dishonst and I have no doubt he is smart enough to know eactly what he was doing.   There are more examples in that one piece but I will leave it at that.

Sorry all for the rant.  But I love those that foster honest discussion of the issues.  In equal neasure I despise the charlatans that run con-games masquerading as honest discussion.  And for the reason stated above, that is my opinion of what I find with most of fox.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
solotripper
Inukshuk
Offline



Posts: 8103
Location: clarkston MI
Joined: Mar 14th, 2005
Re: If you’re bored...
Reply #116 - May 3rd, 2020 at 8:45pm
Quote Quote Print Post Print Post  
I'm with you on Voter ID.

I still disagree on Tucker Carlson NOT because what you said was wrong but because HE regularly tells his viewers that he is biased to the right on most things.

I think that's an important distinction for someone in the "news" media to make and for anyone who listens to understand. I expect that if there is a slant to be made, the opinion people like TC are going to the right or maybe to the Libertarian view as he often does.

You find the same kind of knowing distortion on the Left-leaning media as well. Since the media is overwhelmingly Liberal Fox is swimming against the current the majority of the time.

  I watched PBS for years for the nightly news. I loved the McNeil/Lehrer news hour. I thought they were as about as fair/balanced as you could get.

Then they brought in the two women. The tone/tenor went HARD left and I couldn't watch anymore.

  The media has openly acknowledged that 90% or more of the stories they do about this administration are NEGATIVE!

  I get hating President Trump as a person, but how can you give someone a 90% disapproval by your stories when at least 50% of the voters APPROVE of what he's done?

  That disconnect with the voter is why the polls got it all wrong in 2016. The ONLY poll I believe in and trust is the poll the day AFTER the final ballots are cast.
   

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
solotripper
Inukshuk
Offline



Posts: 8103
Location: clarkston MI
Joined: Mar 14th, 2005
Re: If you’re bored...
Reply #117 - May 4th, 2020 at 6:01pm
Quote Quote Print Post Print Post  
Something to think about when talking about the media role in the current crisis.

  How can a President who was duly elected by at least half the voters receive over 90% NEGATIVE coverage by the mainstream media?

  Joe Concha grades the media coverage of the coronavirus crisis (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
db
Web-lackey
Inukshuk
Voyageur
Offline



Posts: 5460
Location: Just off the beaten path.
Joined: Sep 14th, 2002
Re: If you’re bored...
Reply #118 - May 4th, 2020 at 6:18pm
Quote Quote Print Post Print Post  
In Cronkite's day, news was a public service and a matter of network pride paid for by other programing. Now, due to massive competition for viewers, news programing pays the bills. Advertisers are the customers and we the viewers are the product they are buying.

Hannity and Rush are the highest paid opinion guys and worth their 40 million a year because us-against-them sells especially well to folks who can't tell opinion from facts, or prefer not to for some reason.
  
Back to top
IP Logged
 
solotripper
Inukshuk
Offline



Posts: 8103
Location: clarkston MI
Joined: Mar 14th, 2005
Re: If you’re bored...
Reply #119 - May 4th, 2020 at 6:30pm
Quote Quote Print Post Print Post  
I grew up watching Cronkite. He was a true journalist.
At the end of his broadcast, he sometimes did an opinion piece.

  He made sure everyone watching KNEW it was HIS opinion.

  That's my biggest beef with the media today.
I know when I listen to Hannity/Rush that they are going to be giving THEIR opinions. Sometimes I disagree on how they see a news event but I have no doubt that they are opinion presenters.

  I listen to 90% of the other media and EVERYONE on the panel, even so-called "news" people are giving their opinions MIXED with the news.

  They don't separate the two so many people think EVERYTHING they say is an indisputable fact.
I prefer to hear the subject of the story speak and I'll decide if I believe it or not.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 

 
  « The Put-In ‹ Board  ^Top