There is nothing in the Governor's ban that PROHIBITS out of state people from traveling to MI to their vacation homes. That is what has so many people upset.

  You can argue the merits of banning travel to areas that have limited healthcare but what's the difference between me going north or some guy from Ohio?

  The people in N. Michigan that support the ban on going to your vacation home are some of the ones that don't want out of state people coming either.

  I get my news from a lot of sources including official state ones in times like this.

True... and often they are easily convicted by their own words.

Re: media, unfortunately, we should probably listen to both Fox and CNN, then plant our flag somewhere in the middle, per our own best judgment.

Remember the song "Mrs. Robinson" ?  The line: "Joltin' Joe has left & gone away"?  By my reckoning, the same can now be said about Walter Cronkite.

Never has he been so sorely missed.

Jimbo 

Jimbo wrote on Apr 16^th, 2020 at 11:52am:

Jim I don’t agree!
Why listen to Fox and CNN to find out what they think Trump said or what they want you to think Trump said when you can listen to what Trump said. You are a smart guy you can interpret for yourself.

I don't dispute the value in listening to speeches, verbatim, via YouTube.

Unfortunately, most such political speeches are propaganda (from the left and from wherever our alleged leader is standing at the moment). They seldom offer much value, if any.  The news I look for during this crisis comes from the likes of Dr. Fauci; stuff you can actually derive something useful from.  Instead, for the last couple weeks, all I hear from our daily "Corona-virus Task Force" briefings is self-congratulatory campaign rhetoric... regardless of whether I listen to it on Fox, on CNN or on YouTube.

Like ST, I lean to the right.  Heck, I must even shamefully confess I voted for the current administration.  Generally, I quickly attempt to exculpate myself by insisting that our political system gave us the worst choice I've ever seen in a presidential election... but, truthfully, I should have paid closer attention. Since then, I have listened carefully to the actual words of the guy I voted for.  He told me such things as: his inaugural crowds were bigger than Obama's, a hurricane was headed to Alabama (then made his weather service adjust their map), etc. and etc. and then, finally, that a virus that affected less than 15 individuals in the USA was no problem and it would go away as soon as it warmed up (listen to his actual words contained in this link which I believe to be mostly factual:  (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links) ).  Of course, there are many more examples.  My point is: that the inability to confess even harmless, simple mistakes, and to instead "double-down" and never admit "errors" is a critical flaw in a national leader... especially now.  It has shaken my confidence and has, almost certainly and irretrievably, lost my vote.

That last example I gave (out of the many dozens I could surely find on YouTube) was likely the most grievous.  I'll leave it to future historians to define the magnitude of our failure to address an exponential growth curve situation in a timely manner.  Personally, I believe it will be spelled out in terms of tens of thousands of lives.  However, I shall defer to their objectivity and perspective, as Time reveals more, for any final judgment.

Again, my disillusionment stems from small issues (crowd sizes, weather reports... the easily verifiable stuff) and a core disposition to never admit a mistake.  To err is human, they say, and I could forgive that... if ever it was admitted. 

Right about now, however, I insist upon a leader whose words can be believed.  I insist on credibility.  I sincerely hope our political process will yield a better choice this time around.

I am reading a book right now (I'm 815 pages deep into its 1300 pages), one that won every major award in sight for its thoroughness, detail & historical accuracy.  I recommend it to anyone who can keep their eyelids open through it; it's an endurance test.  Anyway, the striking thing for me was this: quote after quote after quote from actual speeches made at the time have a very familiar "ring" to them, seemingly echoed in today's news.  Most of the book's contents come directly from eyewitness reports, fully recorded speeches, and captured documents that came to light during the Nuremburg trials.  The book is entitled, "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich" and the star of the book wasn't inclined to admit mistakes, either. 

As George Santayana said, ""Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."  Whatever your political leanings - and, remember, I lean right - I urge vigilance.

That's my final word on the subject in this forum... and I will not blame db in the least should he elect to "delete" this particular post and others that have gotten "political."  They probably have no business here.

Jimbo   

solotripper wrote on Apr 16^th, 2020 at 1:42am:


We have a humble cottage on a small private lake in southwestern Michigan--not "up north" as so many in our state do, but mainly west and some south from us here.  It is about 75 miles away and we can drive there without stopping or interacting with any other person.  It is about as remote as our first home, which is in a rural area.  The nearest neighbor rarely comes there, and the other neighbor and his wife are still in Arizona. We don't see anyone but each other. This is a safer option than our first home, I suspect, and if we were to get sick we would head home again, since the hospital situation would be better.  I was at the lake last Friday and Saturday and will probably be there again in a few days.

Like Neal, I am irritated at the unfairness of this edict.  According to our governor, we are prohibited from going to our second home on the lake.  Our little lake is inhabited by approximately 2/3 "weekend people" and the rest permanent year-round residents.  Of that 2/3, at least half are people who come from the Chicago area, mainly South Chicago, (a current "hot spot") to be at their cottages, to a county in Michigan that has very, very few Covid19 cases.

They are not prohibited from coming to their lake homes, but we are.  It is a small thing to be upset about, but it also means that I am not that serious about following the governor's edict.  I may, or I may not.   

Michigan is hard hit and I realize that.  But some sense needs to be used with the guidelines.  Liquor stores and marijuana distributors are still open, but we cannot buy paint if we want to do a home project, or plants for the garden.  Everyone has their own idea of what is "essential", I guess. 

I hate to see this thread turn political. . .but I also was realizing as I read Jimbo's long post that I could have written that.  Not as effectively and well, but nevertheless almost the same story. 

This is a mess our country is in right now.  I see the possibility of our planned mid-June vacation in northern Minnesota getting less and less likely every day.  Heartbreaking.